Recently I interviewed Jodi Cohen, as we chatted about essential oils, and below is the written transcript. If you would prefer to listen the interview you can access it by Clicking Here [1]:
Dr. Eric Osansky:
With me here, I have Jodi Sternoff Cohen, who is a best-selling author, award-winning journalist, functional practitioner, and founder of Vibrant Blue Oils, where she has combined her training in nutritional therapy and aromatherapy to create unique proprietary blends of organic and well-crafted essential oils. She has helped over 50,000 clients heal from brain-related challenges, including anxiety, insomnia, and autoimmunity. For the past 10 years, she has lectured at wellness centers, conferences, and corporations on brain health, essential oils, stress, and detoxification. She has been seen in The New York Times, Wellness Mama, Elephant Journal, and numerous publications. Her website is VibrantBlueOils.com. This is visited by over 300,000 natural health seekers every year. She has rapidly become a top resource for essential oil education on the internet today.
Wow. Very impressive credentials, Jodi. Thanks for joining me.
Jodi Cohen:
Oh my gosh. Always a pleasure. It’s fun to talk to you.
Dr. Eric:
Why don’t we start out by talking about your backstory? How and why did you start Vibrant Blue Oils?
Jodi:
Necessity is the mother of invention. My nutrition story really started with my second child. My first child was really easy, and I just assumed I was this great mom. I had another one 22 months later. My second one was more challenging. He had very little impulse control. We used to try to cue him by touching our nose, saying, “Look at my nose.” He was all over the place. I was taking every parenting class I could find, reading every parenting book. Nothing really helped.
One day, we were at a birthday party, and a friend of mine noticed that he was behaving really well and complimented me. The next thing we knew, another mom handed out a snack, like a Ritz cracker or something. My son literally ate the cracker and Jekyll/Hyded and took off running in the opposite direction. After I sprinted after him, grabbed him, and brought him back, my friend said, “Gosh, I’ve never seen him shift like that after eating something. My brother was on Ritalin his whole life, and it turns out he was just allergic to weird foods. You should take him to a nutritionist.” I thought, that’s easy. I’ve done everything else.
Took him to a nutritionist. The nutritionist basically said he was super sensitive to excitotoxins and of course corn, soy, and dairy, pretty much everything in that Ritz cracker. When we changed his diet, the next day he could look at our nose. He was an entirely different child. I was so blown away by the difference food could make that I went back and got a degree in nutrition and was trying to help other moms with the kids. I lived in Seattle, Washington near Bastyr University, so I had access to all these great Bastyr practitioners. I learned this technique called muscle testing that I found super helpful for assessing wiggly children.
It later turned out to be very helpful when my own rock bottom hit. My then-husband was so depressed that we had to move him into a residential treatment facility. Once I knew he was safe, and it wasn’t my job to keep him safe, it was like I could finally tap out of the marathon. I had no energy. My adrenals were kaput. I could barely get out of bed. The kids were five and seven. I would get up with them, make them breakfast, pack their lunch, take them to school, come home, climb back in bed, and set the alarm for pickup. I knew enough to know it was my adrenals, that I should be taking glandulars, that I was taking adaptogenic herbs. Basically, everything I was ingesting did nothing.
A friend of mine who I had helped with a fundraiser had been planning to give me a box of essential oils as a thank-you gift. She showed up and said, “You know, you have been so high stress,” which means high cortisol, “that I bet you’re systemically inflamed. I bet everything you’re ingesting isn’t getting assimilated and absorbed. Oils are a nice roundabout way to get things in your system because you can smell them and get them in through the olfactory channel. You can topically apply them and get them through the skin. This might help.”
For anyone who has felt like nothing they’re trying really works, and they have that moment of hopelessness and despair, like, “Nothing will help me, this might be my new forever,” and then someone says, “Maybe this will work,” you’re like, “Throw me any rope. I’ll try it.” I muscle tested the box to see if anything in there would help my adrenals. I was really encouraged because I got a very strong yes.
What I typically do is dig further to see what kind of remedy is going to be supportive. I kept getting the same five oils, which threw me initially because I normally get one or two. Then it occurred to me that they are fluid, liquid. I can combine them. I decided to test each one, five drops of this, seven drops of that. Pulled a shot glass out of my kitchen. Mixed them. Put them over my adrenals on my lower back. Felt like myself. It was like a reset button had been pushed. I could go running. I could go to the supermarket. I could do laundry. All those things that felt like too much for the past month, I was finally able to tackle.
I just kept making up other remedies. When I felt better, my friends in the health community were like, “What did you do? We want to try it.” It was testing for their clients, testing for everyone. They kept saying, “You should do something with this.” I originally thought, Gosh, it’s so obvious. Someone must be doing this.
I finally felt like I had enough of my wherewithal to go online and research what was out there. I was very surprised by two things. The first being that no one was really looking at blends to support different organ systems and regions of the brain.
The second was that they made it seem really complicated. If I had had my wits about me and started with research, I never would have blended essential oils because I would have felt completely unqualified. That was kind of the impetus. I tripped into something that helped me personally and seemed to help other people. Once I knew that, it felt helpful just to put it out there.
Dr. Eric:
Wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. Can you talk about some of the different applications of essential oils, like topical versus aromatherapy? Are there different indications for each one? Do you have a preference?
Jodi:
I definitely have a preference. The easiest way to use an oil is to unscrew the top of a bottle and smell it right under your nose. It goes directly into your system. It’s really accessible. I know a lot of people talk about diffusing, and that’s because you literally burn through it a lot faster. But it’s also wasteful because you only need that little bit below your nose for maybe 10 seconds. To fill a whole room with it, a lot of it is going to waste.
There is also topical application. What I do is use specific acupuncture points, like reflex points, to apply it. One of the things that people talk about is there is a localized effect. You hurt your wrist, and you put an inflammatory cream on it, and it helps your wrist. That’s localized. It doesn’t necessarily help your back, but it doesn’t matter. People assume a topical application of essential oils, if you hurt your wrist and are putting an anti-inflammatory oil on your wrist, yes, it will help your wrist. If you are putting it on an acupuncture point or a reflex point, it can help systemically. People dismiss topical application. They assume it needs to get through the skin into the bloodstream and get carried to the liver, and then get pumped from the heart through the body. That takes too long. So it’s faster to drink it or inhale it. But when you’re using acupuncture points, it actually sends a signal immediately. That’s what I try to do and how I’m different than other essential oil companies or practitioners.
Dr. Eric:
Hmm, that’s pretty interesting. My followers are those with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions. I know that some essential oil experts talk about myrrh and frankincense and rubbing the essential oils on the thyroid gland after diluting it with carrier oil.
Jodi:
You can do that. That won’t hurt you. But the way I look at it is there is always things that are going astray under the surface. The way I look at it with thyroid is it’s a combination of stress, gut issues, and detoxification challenges because that then throws off the endocrine system, which throws off your thyroid. What I am trying to do is return those systems to balance through the application of topical remedy often in combination with diet, lifestyle, supplements, and other things. We are trying to make sure the garbage leaves your body, so it doesn’t get recirculated and cause stress on the liver and then throw off thyroid functions.
We are trying to ensure that your hypothalamus adrenal pituitary access is not overfunctioning and throwing off your hypothalamus so then the signals to the thyroid are getting confused. We are also trying to ensure that you’re able to digest, absorb, and assimilate all of your nutrients that are the precursors and building blocks to your thyroid signaling mechanisms.
Dr. Eric:
If I understand you correctly, the priority wouldn’t be reducing inflammation, but more addressing underlying causes and imbalances, using essential oils to support the gut, support the liver, reduce your toxic load, support adrenals.
Jodi:
Yes. I mean, it won’t hurt you to put frankincense and myrrh on your thyroid. To me, that’s teaching someone to tread water as opposed to helping them swim ashore.
Dr. Eric:
Makes sense. You have a history of Hashimoto’s as well, correct?
Jodi:
Yes, it’s pretty much in remission. it’s been going steadily down over time. I love Izabella Wentz and her stuff. Basically, oils are great. It’s like if someone wants to lose weight, I think of exercising or dieting. Do both. The more you can throw at whatever is out of balance, the easier it is to return to balance. Definitely they should be working with you. They should be changing their lifestyle, their diet, add in some supplements, and you can also use oils to hit it from a different angle.
Dr. Eric:
It’s great to hear you say that. You’re encouraging people to use essential oils but not in isolation. In combination with eating well, stress management, other supplements may also be necessary. Of course, I would expect that answer. But one question that I did have is if you use essential oils as a substitute for other supplements. It sounds like the answer is no, that you use them in combination.
Jodi:
I’ll give you an example. We have an oil that I call Parasympathetic. We put it behind the earlobe on the mastoid bone. It stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the nervous system that controls your whole digestive cascade. If you’re eating in a parasympathetic state of the nervous system, you’re better able to digest, absorb, and assimilate your nutrients and supplements. If you’re taking a gram of nature throid, and you’re stressed out all the time, what actually gets assimilated might be less. You might need a higher dose. If you are able to digest, absorb, and assimilate all of your nutrients and supplements, it’s possible that you can over time work down in dosage, just because you’re getting more from what you’re ingesting. I always tell people to work with a doctor. This is not a do it yourself guessing game.
Dr. Eric:
Definitely makes sense. You mentioned the parasympathetic nervous system. Can you talk more about the role of the vagus nerve, not only when it comes to digestion, but anxiety, and what essential oils you would recommend in those cases? Obviously, it depends upon the person probably, but some general ones you commonly recommend.
Jodi:
Backing up. Your autonomic nervous system controls your autonomic functions: your breathing, heart rate, digestion, detoxification. All of the things that the body does automatically that you don’t need to think about. It’s really designed to keep you alive. It has different gears, different speeds, kind of like in your car, you can accelerate, or you can slow down. If there is any kind of danger, we use the example of the lion chasing us down the street. I don’t see that many lions on my street in Seattle, but I do see a lot of people who watch the news and get nervous. Or maybe see something on social media, and they feel fearful.
When we’re feeling like our survival is at stake, our nervous system prioritizes resources differently. It activates what’s known as the sympathetic branch of the nervous system, or the fight or flight branch. Blood flow for example is routed away from your core, your organs of digestion and detoxification to your arms and limbs, so you can fight or flee.
Your eyesight changes. You can look at people’s pupils, the black part of their eyes. If they’re in sympathetic fight or flight, that black part is much bigger, like a saucer. That allows you to take in more light. It’s called selective attention. If you are trying to escape danger or fight danger, you do not need to contemplate the history of the universe. That might paralyze you because you are overwhelmed with options. You just need to focus in on those immediate choices, so your pupils get really big.
If you have anyone in your life who tends to be anxious, and you are trying to have an important conversation, check their pupil size. If they’re big, they’re not going to hear you because they can’t take that information in. When my kids were little, one of the preschool teachers said, “Connect before you correct,” meaning that if you are at the playground, and he throws something in the sandbox, don’t yell at him in the sandbox. Scoop him up, move him to a different part of the playground, let him calm down, make sure the pupils are small, and then say, “Hey, this is a friendly place. If we can’t be friendly, we can’t be here.” Then they can hear you.
Anyway, when you are in sympathetic fight or flight, you are not able to heal. That is not helpful to your thyroid. What you want to do is gearshift into parasympathetic, where you can rest, repair, and regenerate. The gearshift between these two branches of your nervous system is the vagus nerve. It is the longest nerve in the body that most people have never heard of. Cranial nerve #10 starts in the very back of the head. It connects the brain to the body, body to the brain. It splits and is most accessible right behind the earlobe on both sides. It winds around both sides. It then winds through the throat, the heart, the lungs. Any point the vagus nerve touches can be used to stimulate or shift gears and turn on parasympathetic. This is why deep breathing is so helpful. This is why yoga is great. You’re stimulating the vagus nerve.
Early in my oil journey, I had read some research that bergamot is great for calming the nervous system. People think of lavender. I was playing with how to activate my parasympathetic nervous system. I was getting mediocre results. When you go on a diet and you lose one pound, you didn’t gain weight, but it’s not great. I started digging into the research and coming upon a vagus nerve stimulation strategy. There was one practitioner, a neuroscientist out of New York, called Kevin Tracey, who was actually surgically implanting pacemaker-like devices behind the ear lobe on the mastoid bone. It was two surgeries, one behind the earlobe and one in the neck for the battery. He was having amazing success stimulating the vagus nerve, turning on parasympathetic. The FDA actually approved this for epilepsy, depression, and migraines.
When I heard stimulate, it was almost like a light bulb went on, like Oh, I don’t sedate, I stimulate. It’s not that you need to calm the vagus nerve with lavender or chamomile. You need to stimulate it. Listeners may know there are several oils that are stimulatory or hot, like peppermint, oregano, rosemary, thyme, cinnamon, clove. Things that if you were to put a little bit on your skin, your skin might feel warm. It might look a little red. If this happens, you do not want to put water on it. Oil and water don’t mix. You would take another oil, anything in your house. It could be vegetable oil, coconut oil, and dilute with that other oil on top, and it will make it less red, less burning.
When I started thinking, Oh, I’m stimulating the vagus nerve, then I started playing with different stimulatory oils. Clove tested the best. But there is a little bit of chemistry that goes into oil combining. Clove has medium-sized molecules. From the time when you apply it to when it actually gets through the skin, 10-15 minutes. Lime or other citrus oils have super small molecules, so they get in much quicker. When you combine clove and lime, it’s kind of like combining a really good athlete and a really smart person, and you get an athletic, smart person. You’re getting this stimulatory, fast-acting blend that you can then apply behind the earlobe on the mastoid bone, and it works like an acupuncture needle. It helps you stimulate the vagus nerve to activate the parasympathetic nervous system.
Dr. Eric:
Thanks for that explanation. How frequently would someone apply it? If they are feeling anxious, that would be an ideal time to apply it. Let’s say they apply it in the morning, and then it returns. Would they do it again later that day? Or is it once a day?
Jodi:
When people start with me, I am trying to make it as easy as possible. If you can link a new habit to an old one, it’s easier to remember. How many of us have piles of supplements that we just never remember to take? For people who are starting out, leave it by your toothbrush. Put it on when you brush your teeth. Then they will remember. They will notice, when I use this, I feel better. Honestly, when you can perceive the benefit, you do it. For anyone who is on thyroid medication, when I forget to take it, I am sleepy during the day. All of you who are on thyroid medication remember to take it because you see the benefit.
To answer your question, I know people who carry it in their purse. They keep one in the car. I had one woman who said it’s what gets her through election night. She was putting it on literally every four minutes. Better that than maybe drinking an entire bottle of wine. It’s adding salt to your food. Use as needed. But if you’re starting out, give yourself a break. Make it as easy as possible so you can set yourself up for success.
Dr. Eric:
Also, as far as the points of application, you mentioned the acupressure points. For example, with the vagus nerve, they would rub it behind the ear. When other people say rubbing essential oils on the feet, are they using acupressure points then?
Jodi:
Yeah. The feet are wonderful points of application for a number of reasons. Some people either are sensitive to smell, or they’re married to someone who is. When you put things on your feet, you can cover them with socks. It’s not as smelly for the other people in your life. There are tons of acupressure points on the feet. Also, the skin on the feet is a little bit thicker, so those hot oils that I mentioned, some of them are good for anti-microbial, anti-bacterial things, like thyme and oregano. Putting it on the bottom of the feet, it doesn’t feel warm. It’s a great application point for younger children who might be squirmy. You can put things on their feet while they’re sleeping. I have a whole list on my website of where they are. It’s wonderful for a variety of reasons.
Dr. Eric:
Can you also give a few essential oils for liver health? You were talking about the importance of liver and detox.
Jodi:
We have two liver blends. Emotions can play a role in your health because- What oils are particularly good at are moving stagnation. When things sit stagnant for too long, that’s when problems occur. Think of the pond where all the water is stagnant, and things start to grow. In terms of actual physical liver health, like grapefruit is good, helichrysum is good. We have a liver blend that combines things in interesting ways.
For emotional health, blue tansy is really good. The liver is where we stuff our anger. For so many of us, we’re good girls, we’re pleasers, we want to make everyone happy. Sometimes that means we do all of this, and it’s either unappreciated, or someone changes the plan. What do we do with our anger? We don’t get mad at people; we stuff it, and we don’t necessarily know how to release it. Blue tansy is a great way to let things go so that we don’t carry them anymore.
When you think of the trail that the garbage follows from the cell to the toilet, it goes from the cell to the lymph to the blood to the liver to the gallbladder to the gut to the toilet. At any point along that process, it can get stuck and stagnant. Oils really help move fluids. Like in the plants. The water is down in the ground in the root. The leaves can be hundreds of feet in the air. They help keep things moving.
Lymph congestion is common around the thyroid, around the neck. There is a lot going on in the neck. A lot can be bottlenecked and stagnant. Castor oil is fabulous. The mint oils. Spearmint tests better than peppermint. We have a lymph blend. Anything you can do to help things move along the neck. Even just using your fingers to press downward. Lymph drains 75% more on the left side. The clavicle is a bottleneck. Just gently massaging that area. All of these things help to make sure that the garbage leaves your body and doesn’t hang out by the thyroid and cause problems.
Dr. Eric:
Are there any other essential oils that are your favorites that you haven’t mentioned?
Jodi:
Rose is a really good one, especially when you are feeling like you need a little bit more hope or joy. Or if you are experiencing any kind of grief or loss. I had a major loss, and I would wake up in the middle of the night and almost feel like I was having a heart attack because the emotional pain in my heart was so intense. Applying rose oil over the heart really helped. It’s like when you have a charley horse, and you get up and step down, and all of a sudden, the spasming stops. Rose can really help with intense pain and grief and loss.
Dr. Eric:
When talking about the application, you’re usually using one or two drops per essential oil.
Jodi:
Yes. Less is more. You don’t need a ton. When you’re cooking and putting Tabasco sauce in, you’re not going to dump the whole bottle. More is not better. A little bit goes a long way.
Dr. Eric:
How about for candida overgrowth? Oregano? Which oils would you recommend?
Jodi:
Candida serves a purpose. It helps to absorb heavy metals. I encourage people to work with a practitioner because if you’re just getting rid of the candida, and you’re mobilizing the metals, you will have another problem. You want to make sure you’re taking some kind of binder.
Yeah, oregano can be good. Thyme can be good. Lemongrass is good. We have an article that details the good candida. Most people don’t realize that it’s not just a problem. It’s usually growing to protect you from other things. Be careful just eradicating it without making sure you’re mopping up the metals in the process.
Dr. Eric:
All right. Let’s talk about choosing quality essential oils. There are a lot of different companies out there. Like anything else, herbs and supplements, not all essential oils are created equally, correct?
Jodi:
That’s kind of what the marketing speak is. I think that there is a lot of fear-based marketing that I don’t like to play into. Anyone who has ever grown an herb garden, it’s hard to kill mint and lavender. What I would say is when you can, buy organic because they are the concentrated essences of plants. If you are concentrating pesticides, or even things that are grown in metallic soil, that’s not ideal. But I don’t want to terrify people from stepping into it.
If you are new to this and you have never played with oils, honestly go to your health food stores and smell, and see which ones you like. Pick one. Orange is a very affordable oil that smells really good to a lot of people. It’s good for focus and mood. Just try it.
You can add it to your bath. I love Epsom salt baths, which are also good for the liver. I use Mark Hyman’s recipe of two cups of Epsom salt, one cup of baking soda. Since the pandemic started, I have been putting in a lot of borax since that seems to help the immune system. I use the bathtub like a mixing bowl. I use one or two drops of lavender and stir it into the salt before I add the hot water. Make it as warm as you can tolerate. Stay in as long as you can tolerate. It helps to use your skin as a detox pathway so that it lessens the burden on the liver.
Dr. Eric:
How about oral health? Would you recommend oil pulling? I do oil pulling; I don’t add essential oils admittedly. I just swish it with coconut oil, but I have heard where some would say to add some essential oils.
Jodi:
Yeah, I do that. Katie Spears of Wellness Mama has a really good oil pulling recipe. I think she uses a cup of coconut oil, 30 drops of peppermint oil, and she puts them in those candy trays in the fridge and lets them cool so they become almost candy-like. It makes it really easy. I have tried different oils. Sesame oil is recommended. Some of them taste not great. You don’t necessarily want to keep it in your mouth for that long. Adding a little bit of peppermint. You can also use cinnamon or clove. It makes it more pleasant. When it’s more pleasant, you’re open to swishing it around for 15 minutes, and it’s not as disturbing. I definitely like that.
Dr. Eric:
For people listening to this who are brand new, you gave some really helpful tips. If they’re still thinking, I don’t know where to start, I know you said just go to the local health food store and get a couple essential oils. If someone has Hashimoto’s and they are experiencing fatigue and brain fog, the typical symptoms, or again Graves’, and they’re experiencing anxiety, would you just get the essential oils based on their symptoms? Or are there some general essential oils you’d say to start with?
Jodi:
I wrote a book on this called Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body. I’m friends with a lot of practitioners who treat super chronically ill patients. They were saying these people show up at their door with file folders full of their test results. They have Lyme, this, and that. They think they are unbelievably complicated and difficult. What we realized is those are all data points. They can change.
Most people have five imbalances that throw them into ill health. One is what we already talked about, that their nervous system is in the wrong gear. They are operating in the high-stress gear of sympathetic when we should move them into parasympathetic so you can turn on the body’s ability to heal.
They are not sleeping. They are not falling asleep. They are not staying asleep. That throws off everything else.
They are not draining. They are mobilizing toxins. Maybe they are drinking their green juice, so all the toxins are mobilizing. Think of yelling “Fire!” in the movie theater without opening the emergency doors. All you’re doing is getting everyone running around in circles and bumping into each other. You need to make sure the garbage leaves the body. Those are the main three things.
That’s what I really get into in the book: How do you use oils? There are certain challenges as a practitioner. You’re low on B vitamins. That’s an easy one. You supplement with B vitamins. You’re unable to activate your parasympathetic nervous system. This one person says to gag yourself with a tongue depressor. Splash your face with freezing water. Terrify yourself. Guess what? Compliance is zero. That’s hard to do. No one wants to do that. No one wants to evoke something that is unpleasant.
But if I say to someone, “Take the parasympathetic essential oil. Flip the bottle. Put it here,” that takes less than two seconds, it smells good, it makes you feel better, and you will remember that. It’s those kinds of things that I am trying to do.
I recognize there are oil companies that have deep loyalties. In the book, I share the recipes. If you have a house full of oils and don’t want to buy more, I get it. Here is the recipe. Make your own. If you’re worried, “Oh gosh, I don’t want to do it wrong. I’m not sure exactly,” I have ready-made solutions. I am trying to meet people where they’re at and empower them with strategies to help their body return to health.
Dr. Eric:
That makes sense. The name of the book is Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body.
Jodi:
Exactly.
Dr. Eric:
They can also learn more about you by visiting your website, VibrantBlueOils.com [2].
Jodi:
Yes.
Dr. Eric:
Thank you so much for sharing this information, Jodi. I appreciate it. I’m sure that they found it to be extremely valuable. I learned some things, too. Appreciate you taking the time to spread your wealth of knowledge with essential oils. Definitely check out Jodi’s book. Visit her website. Thanks again.
Jodi:
Thank you so much for having me.