In this episode, Dr. Eric Osansky welcomes naturopathic physician Dr. Tricia Pingel for a comprehensive conversation about chronic stress, adrenal health, and nervous system dysregulation. After spending years helping patients with stress and hormone health, Dr. Tricia eventually recognized that she was experiencing significant adrenal dysfunction herself. She shares how decades of performing for others, caring for family members, navigating grief, running a medical practice, and continually pushing through stress eventually took a toll on her physical and emotional health.
Dr. Tricia explains why supplements and healthy habits can be valuable but may not be enough when the nervous system remains stuck in a chronic fight-or-flight state. She and Dr. Eric discuss boundaries, learning to say no, prioritizing yourself while still caring for others, mindset, nutrition, exercise, functional testing, and the importance of creating a sustainable approach to healing. Dr. Tricia also shares how returning to hip-hop dancing helped her reconnect with joy and regulate her nervous system, and why the most effective stress-management practice may look completely different from one person to another.
The conversation ultimately highlights that recovering from chronic stress isn’t about finding one perfect supplement or protocol. It’s about understanding your individual stress response, creating an environment in which your nervous system can thrive, and consistently making choices that support your physical and emotional well-being. Tune in to better understand chronic stress, nervous system dysregulation, and how reconnecting with yourself can become an important part of the healing process.
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Dr. Eric Osansky:
I am excited to chat with Dr. Tricia Pingel. She is a naturopathic physician, a lifelong fashion model, and a hip-hop enthusiast who helps leaders answer the question that changes everything: What am I modeling?
Starting her modeling career at nine months old, she spent decades performing for approval until her body forced her to stop. As a physician specializing in stress and hormone health for 15+ years, Tricia discovered the ultimate irony. The doctor treating burnout had stage II adrenal fatigue herself. Her breakthrough came from an unexpected place: hip-hop dancing, which we will talk about. The joy she had abandoned in pursuit of success became the medicine that supplements and protocols couldn’t provide. That revelation transformed not just her health but her entire understanding of wellness. What works for one person’s nervous system might not work for yours.
She is the author of Total Health Turnaround; host of the What Am I Modeling? podcast; and featured in Prevention Magazine, Women’s Health, and the Dr. Ag Show. Now on the Save My Thyroid podcast. Welcome, Dr. Tricia.
Dr. Tricia Pingel:
Great to be here. Hello, everyone.
Dr. Eric:
This is going to be a great conversation. We were chatting before I pressed Record about hip-hop. I want to talk more about how you started that. I just read your bio, but it’s very brief. Let’s get more into your background. How did you start doing what you do today? The adrenal burnout was where your passion came for what you do. I’ll let you take over.
Dr. Tricia:
It’s interesting because when I graduated med school, I always loved the endocrine system. I loved how hormones play with each other. I went into stress response. It was almost a subconscious decision. I don’t know why. I’m going to open a practice and do hormones and thyroid and cortisol. I didn’t really put much thought behind it.
Fast forward 15+ years, looking back. Now I can see why I went into this field. I was raised literally from the time I was born in an industry where you were expected always to be performing for other people. That put a ton of stress on me as a kid, as an adult.
I had a lot of identity issues. I went through a ton of grief. I lost my family very early. That promotes its own identity crisis. We can dive into more of that. I lost my mom, which I hit rock bottom. I went my entire life from nine months until about 40, where I was literally just performing for everyone, dealing with the punches, dealing with the stress, tackling it, white knuckling my way through it in every single way.
Running a practice, raising a family, getting married, taking care of my parents, losing my parents, taking care of my grandparents, losing my grandparents, going through a practice as a solo entrepreneur, building my practice, writing a book. I did it all with a smile on my face. I was still modeling. I didn’t officially retire from modeling until just a couple years ago.
I was doing all of that. I was doing all the things. From the outside, everyone was like, “Wow, Tricia, damn. Look at all the things you do. You’re incredible.” On the inside, I was literally, I don’t want to use the word “dying” because I’m so grateful to be here, but my passion, my joy, my love, the light that you see in me now, was dimmed. It was gone. My body was telling me by hair loss, weight loss, fatigue, lack of interest in what I was doing, estrogen dominance, poor nutritional absorption, wrinkly skin, dry skin.
On one hand, from the outside, I was thin, tall, booking a ton of modeling gigs. On camera and on the runway, that looks great. In person, I was literally struggling with who I was, trying to keep up with everything in my life.
It just came to a point where I was like, “Tricia, you need to make a change. You need to make a conscious change to create the life that you want.” That’s what I did. I created the life I wanted. I changed my entire practice. I changed the way that I treated myself, the way I spoke to myself. I started to say, “What am I teaching my children about life, stress, how we deal with situations?” I went back to dance.
Those few conscious changes had more impact on my health than the 20 years of enzymes and ashwagandha and rhodiola and minerals and multivitamins. All these things that I was putting down my throat to try to be well. The diet modifications, which I have always been very strict about. All of those things definitely helped, but it wasn’t until I came to that rock bottom and said, “Okay, what am I modeling to the world? What am I modeling to myself? Am I worth living?”
It makes me teary-eyed because so many people make the other choice: to not live. I’m so thankful that I made that choice to live. Now I’m here. I’m able to spread that to other people, and I’m able to make a difference in people’s lives. It’s completely changed my practice, my life. So happy to have a place like this to come and talk about that. Hopefully, it can help just one person wake up and say, “I am so worth living this life.” That’s now become my mission in general. From the adrenal whisperer to doing all these hormones to saying, “Hey, you’re totally worth living.”
Dr. Eric:
I’m glad you made that choice, too. A lot of people get in a real dark place. It sounds like you were at that point at one point in your life as well.
How did you know that you were in stage II adrenal fatigue? You were dealing with patients for so long. Did you decide to test your adrenals?
Dr. Tricia:
That would have been a great way to do it. When you’re in it, you don’t see it. It would have been great if I would have been like, “Hey Tricia, why don’t we test your adrenals?” Instead, I sat here every day, talking to people, testing their adrenals, treating them, watching their progress, seeing those light bulbs go off in them. Never for a moment did I wonder if I was having my own troubles.
One day, I was sitting in an office visit across from a patient. She was describing her experience. A light bulb went off. I was like, “Oh my god, that’s me. I think I might have adrenal fatigue. I think I might have burned myself out.” Unfortunately, it took me way too long to make that recognition.
I was still in this idea, which most of us women do for sure (I can’t speak for men, but I suspect they do), that if I just push through, I’ll be okay. I’m “managing” my stress well. I’m white knuckling through it. I will just take care of everyone else. I will be fine, and then I will get to me. I will get there eventually. I am going to do what I need to do. I will make this appearance that I have got it all put together.
That becomes a subconscious pattern in all of us. We start to perform our lives as we have been taught and as we have seen. Our mirror neurons in our brain watch everyone around us and pick up, what are we going to do? How are we going to respond to trauma? How are we going to respond to stress?
When you have a little kid, like a two-year-old, and you’re at the park, and the kid falls down, what’s the first thing they do? They look at the parents. Am I okay? Did I get hurt? If the mom freaks out, “Oh my god!” every time that kid falls down as an adult, they will go, “Am I okay?” If the mom is like, “Dude, brush it off,” they may throw it under the rug.
I am not saying one way is better than the other, but they have learned from watching the environment how to respond to stress, how to respond to trauma, how to respond to problems. That’s how we build resilience.
There are pros and cons to being in the modeling industry for so long. One pro was that I learned how to be resilient. I learned how to take no. Now I probably internalized it more than I should have. I wish I would have had a better understanding of myself at that point not to take it personally, but I did learn how to get knocked down and how to get back up. I did learn how to block things out and keep working. I had a very good work ethic. I learned how to show up on time at a very young age. I learned how to be professional. I learned how to pay taxes when I was 13. There are things that have benefited me as a business owner from that business and growing up faster than I probably should have.
On the other side, I also learned how to power through and not speak up for myself. That is what ended up taking me down in the end. I don’t think you have to be a model or grow up in that world to experience that in our current world. A lot of us aren’t speaking up for ourselves.
We are now seeing development of disease from not speaking up, from holding in emotion, from holding emotion in our body, particularly in chiropractic. How many people with low back pain have emotional releases when you adjust them? We hold that in our body. Our brain then adapts. All of that becomes subconscious. Guess what, guys? When it’s subconscious, you will see a bear and have a fear response without knowing it. That stimulates the adrenals.
I spent all those years treating just the adrenals and not saying, “How do I change the response to the bear?” That’s what changed as my practice grew. How do I address an adrenal issue now? How am I different than every other adrenal doctor out there? I think that’s where it is. If we still think there is a bear, there is no amount of rhodiola that will make it better.
Dr. Eric:
Agreed. I have been guilty of that, too. Not to say there is not a time and place for supplementation.
Dr. Tricia:
For sure.
Dr. Eric:
I still recommend it. If all you do when you have an adrenal issue is here is ashwagandha, rhodiola, or holy basil, and you don’t help the person with the stress response. Then the nervous system dysregulation and everything that comes along with it, they are not going to get better.
Dr. Tricia:
Those are great tools because they calm the brain down for you to be able to start to make these self-realizations. If those herbs can help calm the brain down and put you in a parasympathetic state, so you can actually start to recognize, “This is a fear response.” “Oh, I learned this in my environment.” “Oh, I don’t have to make this choice,” then the supplements plus the mental/emotional aspect of it, you go so much faster toward recovery. It’s like a lightning bolt versus hanging there by just doing the supplements.
I don’t want to allude that supplements are important. They have been used in myself and my patients for years. Are they being used as a “This is going to change my adrenals and will be the only thing I have to do?” The answer is no. I have learned the hard way that you have to do so much more than that. When you do it, the joy that you can experience through life is so worth it.
Dr. Eric:
How long did it take you to recover? Was this a six-month process, a few years before you got to what you would consider a state of optimal health?
Dr. Tricia:
My adrenal fatigue probably started when I was nine months old. You go for 40 years of developing these patterns. They certainly won’t reverse in six months.
When I first started to say, “Okay, we need to shift our life here,” I started to make those changes, it was right after my mom died. My mom ran my practice with me. She built it with me. We had our history and stresses throughout life, but we came together and built a practice. I saw her every single day. She had cancer. One day, she couldn’t come to work anymore. She rapidly, within nine months, declined, went through chemo. Chemo killed the cancer she had but gave her a door for brain cancer to come in and take over her brain. They treated it. That gave her the door for sepsis to take over, and she ultimately died of infection, not of cancer.
It knocked me down. Most people would say, “I should take some time off.” But I was booked out two months. I didn’t even take time off. I can’t let my patients down. I’m booked out two months. I’m in demand. I’m a business owner. I have to make money. I’m a sole provider. At the time, my husband was staying home with the kids, so I was providing the financial income. I have to keep going.
I didn’t even recognize, to preface that, to answer your question, how long it took me. I was definitely not seeing the severity of the situation. Anyone else would have told me to take time to grieve. In my life, we stuff down grief. We move on. We save the day. We jump in and help the next person. I helped everybody else in my family grieve when my dad died when I was 24. I helped everybody else grieve when my grandparents died. I was always the rock that got everyone through. I worked with patients. They were going through crisis. I was there to help them. I was going to save them. I was going to be the one they could depend on.
When I needed that, I could not admit that I needed that. I just kept powering through. Then there was a point about two months after that where I literally crashed. I didn’t want to get out of bed or go to work or see my children. I didn’t want to do anything. I looked like crap. That’s when I finally looked at myself in the mirror.
From that point forward, the next six months were probably the hardest time I’ve ever had in my entire life. I was already here, and it went way lower. I had to start to dig into the stuff that I didn’t want to talk about or deal with or process.
So many people think when you start treating adrenal fatigue, it will get better from the moment you start to treat it. It didn’t. It was worse. It required me to stand up for myself and commit to myself. The next six months were the hardest. I did reiki a couple times a week. I released emotions that I didn’t know I had. I had memories coming up that I didn’t even know I had. I took all the supplements. I forced myself to eat because you don’t want to eat when you’re in that moment.
I had to start saying no to things. God forbid. I had to start saying no to things. I had to start saying, “No, I’m not going to do that fashion show,” “No, I’m not going to write another book,” which by the way I was in the process of doing. I actually said no and postponed it. I had to start speaking up for myself.
Six months, a lot harder than I ever thought it could be. This is where dance came in. I had started dancing again.
I’ll answer your question first. I would say I’m still healing. The first six months was the hardest. The second six months, I started to get my energy and joy back, but they were in small scale. Then I leveled it up. I leveled up how to take care of myself. Here is my new baseline. What is my next goal?
A lot of it came with saying no and setting boundaries for myself and really honing in on what type of life do I want to live. What type of life do I want to model? Every year, it got better and better. Within two years, my family was like, “Oh wow, Tricia is coming back. Here she is.”
As I look back on video, where I see myself come back, is in dance. I see it. If you go back and look at videos of me dancing when my mom was dying, which is when I went back, you see the emotion and way I bring that out of my body. Even comparing to last year, how much more I see in myself when I dance now from previous, we started to see it come back. We started to do things that were a joy. Two years until I started to say, “Okay, I see myself again.” It’s been every three months from then on. In these three-month cycles, I get better at it.
Now, 10 years later, I don’t even remember what it really felt like to be that low. It actually surprises me when I talk about it that I actually was that low. I couldn’t imagine being that low now. I don’t want to call myself a different person, but I am in a very good way and far more like I was as an energetic, fun-loving, goofy child. I’m far more goofy now than I was. I lost a lot of that.
I would say to people, when it comes to adrenal issues, it’s an ongoing process because stress changes. The stress we experience changes. The emotion that we have to it changes. Life keeps moving forward. Sometimes, it doesn’t go as we expect. The more that you let that go, and the more that you trust the process, the more you’re going to get out of it. This is an ever-evolving thing. I hope that if we ever have a follow-up interview in two years, five years, I can say I’m feeling better than I am today. This isn’t it for me!
It’s a long progress but a progressive one. People need to understand that you often go backwards before you go forwards.
Dr. Eric:
That’s true. You gave a lot of gems there. Everybody has a different background and story, of course. You definitely had a lot more trauma than I did. When I dealt with Graves’, and I did an adrenal saliva test, and everything was in the tank (cortisol, DHEA, secretory IgA), even now, I keep on saying it’s always a work in progress. I don’t consider myself a master in handling stress. I’m definitely a lot better than I was many years ago.
Also, the power of saying no is worth repeating, too. Everybody, including me, even these days, I probably need to say no more than I do. I’m better now than I was five years ago, 10 years ago. If someone would invite me on a summit, and I didn’t want to, I might still say yes because I didn’t want to say no. Maybe someone would see me who didn’t know me. Not to say I will never be on summits. I have been interviewed by you on your podcast and on other podcasts. I am more selective. I need to be because I only have so much time.
Caring about others without taking care of ourselves. That’s something I bring up in the health history. Maybe 70% of people check that box. It’s a great trait to take care of others. If you’re not eventually taking care of yourself, you just brought up some really important things to share. If people say no more, take better care of their health, if you are not prioritizing your health, eventually you will not be able to take care of other people.
Dr. Tricia:
The lesson in that, too. There was a point where I was like, geez, am I going to lose another person? Care for somebody, lost them. Caring for someone, lost them. Caring for someone, lost them. At some point, what am I missing? Why do I keep attracting this back to myself? Is there a lesson I’m not learning from this? Instead of saying, “Woe is me, I have to take care of all of these people and then lose them.” It changed to “What is the lesson?”
I’m empathetic. I wouldn’t necessarily call myself an empath on a high level, like some people are, where they are just taking in everything. But I am an empathetic, caring person. I am a responsible person. Therefore, I would get that role.
I think one of the lessons that it was trying to teach me was I had to learn how to set those boundaries on how to care for people or myself. I didn’t. So it gave it to me again. Life was like, “Here’s another one. Until you figure this out…”
I think that’s important when we get caught in that stress to ask what the lesson and growth opportunity is here. How can I take my assets, the things that I’m really good at and utilize that, but also not compromise my happiness?
It’s hard to remember that when you get older. When you think about how you were four, that’s you. How many of us are doing what we are doing when we were four? I am now. “Would I have done this when I was four? Heck yeah, I’m in.” If I’m like, “No, I would have hated it,” I won’t do it.
Tapping back into who we innately are, what our brains innately are, and giving the medicine of life the things that we experience to our bodies, so our bodies can respond with joy is a very important thing that we have been conditioned to tamper. Doesn’t matter if you like it; just do it. It’s responsible. A good person would do that.
A good person would take care of your stepdad. I took care of my stepdad for years. If he wasn’t my stepdad, I wouldn’t have taken care of him. It wasn’t a relationship that filled my cup. Out of obligation, I took care of him. I found myself setting boundaries. How much do you really want to give to somebody? How much will you set? Can you be a good person and do this but maybe not go above and beyond? Those are the little decisions that we take on as adults, even with jobs and relationships.
Self-reflection is important when it comes to adrenal fatigue. Who are you? What do you want out of life? Are you getting it?
Dr. Eric:
Excellent points. Let’s talk more about the hip-hop dancing. That is obviously something that gives you joy.
Dr. Tricia:
I love it.
Dr. Eric:
When we talk about managing stress, across the board, we know things such as meditation and deep breathing and yoga. There are a lot of different types of mind-body medicine. All of these can be beneficial. Not enough people are doing things that they actually enjoy doing. Let’s talk about that.
A few things with hip-hop. Is that your main form of stress management? Do you still incorporate other types of mind-body medicine? Is it a type?
Dr. Tricia:
It is.
Dr. Eric:
What I think about, and maybe you can correct me if I’m wrong, but when I think about mind-body medicine, I think about trying to get your body into that parasympathetic, rest and digest state. I think of hip-hop as the opposite. Not to say that it’s bad.
Same thing with exercise. When you exercise, it’s not a parasympathetic state, but it definitely has benefits. I exercise regularly.
If you could talk more about getting into hip-hop. Is that something you do every day? Do you incorporate other types of mind-body medicine as well?
Dr. Tricia:
It is interesting. People think of this high-energy thing as can’t be calming the nervous system. If you really look at dance, and it doesn’t matter what type, there are multiple things happening at the same time. You are learning choreography. In the beginning, it’s somewhat stressful. Cognitively, I can’t remember that routine, and you beat yourself up about it. You have to overcome that. When you overcome that, there is a parasympathetic release to that, when you overcome worrying about what everyone else is thinking.
You have to learn choreography. Then your brain has to take that choreography and put your body where it’s supposed to go. Then you are also feeling an emotion to the music. You’re listening to music. You’re moving to the music. The only way you can truly dance is just to let go.
If you are someone going into a dance class, and the whole entire time you’re in your head, worried about getting it perfect, you’re right. That is not a parasympathetic state. If you turn on music that you loved, and you were in the kitchen cooking, and you just let your body move. You didn’t think about what you were doing. That is actually a parasympathetic state. You’re almost in an alpha state. You’re not even thinking about it. You’re just flowing, moving.
When I was younger, I was on a dance team. I was one of the captains of a dance team. I have danced my entire life. I started in ballet, moved into jazz. They didn’t have hip-hop at the time. When I was in high school doing dance team stuff, it was the ‘90s, so it was the early hip-hop movement. I have always loved dance.
My dad was a musician by hobby. He was very creative. I grew up with him playing music in the kitchen. Every holiday, we played music, danced, sang. For me, that creative outlet brings me home. Music brings me home. When my dad died, I stopped listening to music. I stopped dancing. All those years led to the adrenal burnout that we already talked about. I had to bring music back into my life.
There is a parasympathetic aspect to music in general and dance when you let go of the idea that you have to do it perfectly. Doesn’t matter if it’s hip-hop or lyrical or ballet or free dancing in your kitchen. The research shows that if you dance, you actually have a better stress response, a more parasympathetic outlet, reversed risk of dementia. They have done a ton of studies on that.
There was one study where they looked at multiple activities in the senior population: tennis, weightlifting, walking, and dancing. Dancing far surpassed brain health improvement. It was the best thing that people could do. I fully believe it’s because you have to be in tune with all of your senses at one time. You can’t control that.
I had to let go. When you watch the early dances that I did, I don’t let go. If you watch me now, I hope that you see me let go. I couldn’t care less.
Dr. Eric:
I did mention before we pressed Record that I’ve seen some of your videos. It definitely looks like you’re letting go.
Dr. Tricia:
I don’t even care. Finding the emotion in the music. It’s not so much- Some people don’t like hip-hop dancing. They probably wouldn’t enjoy that. Do I do anything else? Absolutely.
I should preface this by saying I recently looked at my brain in a QEEG. One thing that my brain innately needs is creative outlet and high intensity movement four days a week. My brain is built to be a high intensity person when it comes to movement and to strive for creative environments. If I’m stressed, I feel overwhelmed, I’m feeling like I don’t want to go to work that day or I feel like I can’t handle something, I have now learned that I have to do something creative. For me, that stands.
For somebody else, it could be art or drawing or writing or listening to music. I listen to music all the time. When I’m stressed, sometimes I will tinker on the piano. I’m not very good at it, and I don’t care. Or I will turn on music and start singing and dancing. I have learned that’s what my brain innately needs.
We can actually see that in people’s brains. We can see if you will respond better to meditation, yoga, breathing, or if you’d respond better to a creative outlet or with high intensity activity. We can see that, which is another conversation. It’s so cool.
I believe in affirmations. The first thing when I wake up in the morning is gratitude practice before I even get out of bed. I thank the world for the opportunity to live another day. I thank the world for an opportunity to be with my children. I thank them for things that haven’t happened yet. I’m thankful that I’m financially stable. I have a healthy family. My kids are all grown up and beautiful. They’re still teens. I thank the universe for the things that have already happened, for the life I am trying to create.
That is very big in Joe Dispenza’s work. A lot of mindset medicine people say, “Your future has already happened. You have to acknowledge it, have gratitude for it, and put out signals and energy to people of what you want back.”
Throughout the day, if I encounter someone who is operating at a low frequency in their life, they are very angry and mad at the world, instead of getting mad at them and picking up their energy, I have sympathy for it. It’s unfortunate that they’re still working through their struggles, but I’m so grateful to be here.
My mind-body practice works throughout the day. I have ingrained it to a point where I do it with it being subconscious now. I don’t even really think about it. In the beginning, I had to think about doing my gratitude statements. If that person is having a bad day, make sure- Now it’s a natural thing.
Another thing I do every day is smile at strangers. I put out the energy of love and joy, and I get that back. The people I encounter now are usually very joyful and happy, whereas in the past, maybe they weren’t. They were more Debbie Downers. I don’t really see those people anymore.
You want a red car; you buy a red car. You don’t see any red cars until you buy the red car, and then you see red cars everywhere. That concept. I focus on what I want in my life, and that’s my mind-body practice.
Historically, I don’t want to say I’m not a good meditator. I’m not supposed to say that. Historically, meditation has been difficult for me. I’m very busy. A lot goes on in my head. That’s how I do my meditation. I’ve customized it to make it work with my life, if that makes sense.
Dr. Eric:
Yes. Do you take a similar approach with your patients? I assume you don’t tell your patients to take hip-hop dancing.
Dr. Tricia:
Never.
Dr. Eric:
It’s not just hip-hop dancing. Someone might be listening to this who is interested in dancing, but a different type of dance. I’m sure the research that you have done showed not just hip-hop but other types of dancing.
Dr. Tricia:
With my patients, a couple things. More recently, I have been scanning their brains. We have been able to tell them directly what their brain needs. That helps them make their decision faster. “I’m someone whose brain needs a more organized life. I’m very overwhelmed. Here are 3-4 things I can do. I’m supposed to be outside more.”
When we scan the brains, we can actually see if they need more physical activity. Are they someone who thrives in outdoor spaces? What types of things will overwhelm them? What will make them happy? They can look at their life. I can sit down with them and say, “What does your life look like right now? Where do you like your life to be? Where does your brain say it needs? Let’s come up with a plan that is actually sustainable.
You can do all these detoxes and fast fixes and resets. Yeah, that gets people in the door. The bottom line is whatever you do has to be sustainable. I don’t eat gluten. I haven’t had gluten in 20 years. I haven’t had dairy in 30 years. It’s sustainable for me, so I can commit to it. If I had said I was never going to eat another vegetable, that could have not been sustainable because I love vegetables. You have to figure out what is going to be sustainable for your life.
More recently, I have been able to see in their brain and help them get to a decision faster. A prior tip for people who don’t have access to that is look back. Ask your family. Look back at pictures. What did you love to do when you were a kid? If you were told you have all day to do whatever you want to do, what would you have done? Would you have gotten on a bicycle and ridden to a friend’s house and had social time?
I locked myself in a room with all my dolls and built them houses. I decorated them. I always had Madonna, Michael Jackson, someone on my tape player or record player. I don’t ever remember playing without music. I never did homework without music on. My family used to say, “Shouldn’t you go to the library?” “No, I need the music.” There was something about the music for me. I’ve always had music in me. That’s why I feel music. That’s what brings me joy.
When I looked back at that, what did I love to do? I loved to be around music. I loved to be around creatives. I loved gatherings where people would sing and play board games. I loved redecorating. When I did my brain scan nine years ago, my brain actually said that exact thing that I need. You can figure it out on your own, but if you’re having trouble, you can also see it.
That’s my advice. I’ll give you a three-step thing for situational in a second. You have to recognize what’s causing stress in you, what’s causing the overwhelm. You also have to retap in with who you are naturally and love that person more than anything in the entire world. Nobody should change who you are. You were the most beautiful, wonderful person as you were born. There is no need to let anyone else tell you who you are. That’s what we do as we get older. We let everyone else mold us, and we lose that connection with that four-year-old child. It’s that child who will bring us back to who we are.
Dr. Eric:
Can you tell everyone again what you use for the brain scan?
Dr. Tricia:
I do a QEEG. Just like you would if you were monitoring seizure activity. We put it on a head, and it takes about 15 minutes. We monitor the brain when the eyes are closed and when the eyes are open. Look at not only what waves come up (theta, alpha, beta, new rhythms, things like that) but also asymmetries in the brain.
By putting those together in different patterns, it comes up with different personality profiles. There are many of them. Right now, I have five. We will be adding another one. It can tell what types of jobs would be great for your brain, what types of things bring you joy, what types of things overwhelm you.
It’s different than some of the brain mapping done in the neurofeedback world. In that, they say, “You have ADD. We will do neurofeedback and fix you.” I don’t love that. I think people could have ADD and be ridiculously successful and love their life. Why do we need to fix them? We need to put them in an environment that allows their brain to thrive. Is that ADD tendency something they have developed due to stress? Was it always there? Is it something we should leverage?
We have gotten into a society that we’re always trying to find out what’s wrong with us. Even a diagnosis of Graves’, that wasn’t anything wrong with you. It was something you needed to go through to learn something to benefit you. Now you can pay that forward to so many different things. It doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It can be a good thing.
This is looking at it in a far more in-depth level as to what our innate brain is and how we have adapted to that over time. It goes so far as to being able to see how stress impacts you. Are you someone who is really impacted by life events, by politics, by your Facebook feed, by what someone else says? Are you someone who can block that out?
Are you someone who innately is a perfectionist and self-deprecating and always putting yourself down? We can see that in the brain. We don’t often recognize that. It’s in our subconscious. When I can bring that forward and say, “I can see I beat yourself up,” now I talk to them differently during an office visit. I can hear them. They start to say, “I tried, but I wasn’t good enough at it.” Hold on. “Why did you just say that?” That’s your brain telling you that. You are good enough for that. Then they start to be able to recognize that to make the change in behavior to be able to overcome that and use it to their benefit.
Perfectionism and self-regulation can be a really strong trait. A lot of entrepreneurs are that way. They can become incredibly successful if it doesn’t take them down. Being able to see that and understand where the stress may be impacting them in the world, so they can curate an environment that benefits them, has been game-changing for my practice, me, my family, and my relationships. From 15 minutes on a helmet. So cool!
Dr. Eric:
Awesome. You say you have been doing it for nine years now?
Dr. Tricia:
I recently started this in the last year. I did mine nine months ago.
Dr. Eric:
You said your brain scan was nine years ago?
Dr. Tricia:
I meant nine months ago. It’s funny because a lot of the things I have been implementing. Telling people to look at their inner child. Moving toward creative outlets. Looking at their environment. I was doing all of these things out of instinct. How can I pick up from other people’s energies? Here is your metabolics. Here is what you’re saying, what I’m hearing. I could pick up on that. In a sense, it was still guessing.
Now, when I started to do these on these clients I have been guessing with for 10 years, it came back exactly what we were doing. That was cool. It gave a direct confirmational road map that you are on the right track. You need to stick with it or level it up. We self-doubt.
You can predict the risk of suicide in brain scans. Are they someone who would be more likely to take their own life or not? This isn’t about pediatrics. As a mom, if I could do a scan on a four-year-old and see that they have a higher probability of putting themselves down, feeling worthless in the world, and are therefore a higher suicidal risk, and I could go in and change their environment and curate an environment for them that allowed them to thrive with their brain rather than go in that direction, why wouldn’t I do that? That’s why it’s become a part of my mission and my passion project.
I want people to see joy again. I want them to see the red cars of joy, not the red cars of anger and hate. It’s not helping us to consistently look for what’s wrong in the world. I think it helps us to look for what’s right in the world and what’s right with us.
Dr. Eric:
Yeah. Do you combine the brain scan with other types of testing? Do you still do functional medicine testing?
Dr. Tricia:
For sure. I typically use blood tests quite a bit. I have gotten good at reading blood tests. If I have someone who I really can’t tell what their cortisol rhythm is by asking them, I will do a four-point cortisol test. Typically, if they track it for 24 hours, I can tell you what it is. I run thyroid, hormones, inflammatory markers. I often do additional nutritional testing, especially if they show signs of chronic stress and nutritional depletion. I will often do gut testing.
I look at each individual client individually. Not everyone gets the same tests. I am combining it with that. Absolutely. You have to look at the numbers. You have to look at the mindset.
I have four prongs. I have nutrition because that’s how we run. That’s what our mitochondria run on for energy. I haven’t had a single person walk through my office in all my years of practice who hasn’t said at some point, I’m tired. I’m fatigued. I don’t have enough energy. We have to look at, from a cellular level, what creates energy in our bodies. You have to look at the mitochondria, which are run by minerals and nutrients.
Exercise. Are we doing exercises that benefit the parasympathetic system as well as the sympathetic system? Are we getting enough movement to keep the body producing more energy? When you’re sedentary, you become more tired. We have that aspect.
Supplements. What supplements are right for this person based on that test?
The fourth part is the mindset and what we have been talking about: curating that environment. That is the part people miss. I have read a thousand adrenal books by other people. Just meditate three times a day. You know what? It doesn’t always work. If you don’t go all in on it, I don’t get as much benefit from meditating as I do from dancing. That is my thing.
So many people will do the diet, supplements. Exercise is a tough one. A lot of people don’t want to do it. They often overexercise or underexercise. The missing link is always the mindset piece. People don’t commit to it.
It takes 21 days to fully reverse a habit. It took me 21 days of waking up every morning and saying, “I’m grateful for this opportunity to live my life. I’m grateful for the opportunities I have been getting. I’m grateful for the wonderful life and financial security and grown kids and my wonderful practice and the change that I’ve made through the world of brain health and EEGs, which hasn’t necessarily happened yet.” It took me 21 days to say that every single day, multiple times a day, before it became ingrained, and I just said it without thinking about it. Most people give up at about day seven. Do you find that, too? One week in, they’re out.
Dr. Eric:
That’s common. The mindset aspect is so important, but practitioners don’t focus enough on it. I was guilty of that in the past. Not just working with patients but myself, too.
Our own personal mindset as practitioners is extremely important as well. As practitioners, and people, we all know that diet- People know there is no perfect diet that fits everybody, but we know we should avoid fast food, refined sugars, processed foods, and focus on whole, healthy foods. We know we should be getting sufficient sleep, not that everybody does that, but we know we should be getting 7-8 hours of sleep ideally.
You’re right about exercise. I was guilty in the past of overtraining. A lot of people do too much or too little. Not enough people focus on the mindset aspect. I’m glad you brought that up.
Dr. Tricia:
You also have people who do everything right. They eat the right food, exercise every day, put down all their supplements, but they are in a sympathetic state. They are in a fight or flight state. None of it works. They’re like, “I did that. It didn’t work.”
If you are listening and say, “Dr. P, you’re great. Hey, I’m doing it all. I’m eating right, avoiding gluten and dairy, eating anti-inflammatory foods. I work out every day. I do my meditation every day. I take all my supplements. My numbers aren’t changing, and I’m not feeling any better.” I would say, “You need to level up on the mindset piece.” You’re not actually in a calm state.
When we are in fight or flight, we do not digest our food well. We do not absorb those supplements. Then you’re taking all these supplements and putting all this money toward organic foods and supplements, and we are not absorbing them at the level we need to.
When you eat a meal, do you sit down and have a conversation with your family and slowly eat a meal? Or do you shove it down your face in a 15-minute break while you’re on the go to the next thing?
Looking at those things. They sound so simple. Those are the things that make such a huge difference when it comes to adrenal fatigue. If you have adrenal fatigue, it’s probably because you’re someone who is very organized, gets everything done, and is everybody for everybody. You’re doing everything right by the book. We often have to let that go.
My grandmother was like this. She drank gin every single day. A gin martini every single day, and she smoked a pack of cigarettes. She lived happily until she was 97. What is it? She had zero stress. That woman went with the flow. I’m sure that she would eat a vegetable and get 100% absorption of the zinc.
Someone who is eating a great diet every single day, running around with their head cut off like a chicken, might only get 40%. It’s not a lesson to drink gin and smoke cigarettes. The lesson is the stress does make a difference in the efforts you’re putting forth.
Doing those efforts from a place of mindfulness and gratitude for that meal, for sitting down with the time with the family, for taking the time to eat and cook for yourself. Those are the things that really make the biggest difference. Not shoving 30 supplements down your throat while getting in the car. Take a moment. Swallow each one. Breathe. Take your time.
Dr. Eric:
It’s funny you mentioned that. I’m visiting a friend this weekend, another chiropractor. It’s been a few years since I’ve seen him. I remember in the past, he used to take all of his supplements at once. I don’t know how he did it. Even if I wanted to, I can’t swallow a whole gob of all these capsules at once.
Dr. Tricia:
Often, you’re doing it while you’re running between one room and another. I have my Oura ring on. I have a love/hate relationship with it because I like that it can look at my sleep, but I keep it on airplane mode. I only look at the data once a week. if I look at the data all the time, I would be in a sympathetic state worrying about the data. Am I on the numbers? Am I stressed out? Did I do that right? That is not always helpful when it comes to adrenal fatigue. We have to trust a little bit and let our bodies relax, so they can do what they need to do and absorb those nutrients.
Dr. Eric:
Agreed. This has been great. I’m sure we could both chat about this for another hour. Similar with other podcasts and guests. There is only so much we can cover in a single episode. Is there anything else that you really wanted to chat about that I didn’t ask you about?
Dr. Tricia:
Never. I think we always ask the questions that are needed to be asked. I would say to anyone listening, you are so worth committing to yourself. You are worth waking up every day. You are worth taking care of yourself. You are worth saying no. You are put on this earth to make a difference in some way.
When life gets busy, we forget our purpose. We think we have no purpose. I just want to remind everyone out there that everybody here has a purpose. If you have lost it, you can get it back. You can get it back quickly. You can commit to yourself. That’s #1. I just want everyone to hear that because I believe every soul is here to lift themselves and everyone else up. Find that in you. If you have trouble finding it, there are resources.
Secondly, I love meeting new people. That’s why I do what I do. DrPingel.com, you can find me there. All my links to my Instagram, YouTube, podcast, book are there. If you’re on social and doing it for fun, don’t go there and doom and gloom. Go there and find something fun to look at, laugh a little bit. If you want fun feeds that are focused on joy, movement, something to relate to and make you laugh, please follow me and my podcast.
Write a note. Don’t be a blind follower. Say, “Hey, I saw you on this podcast. I enjoyed what you had to say. I just wanted to introduce myself.” I’m not out here just to be a talking head. I literally do want to change lives. Knowing that you heard me in any way, if I made you smile, that lights me up to know that. Write that down, so I can respond. That’s my one ask of your audience.
Dr. Eric:
If they actually want to see you dancing on social media, I think you said Facebook before we started?
Dr. Tricia:
I post more on my personal pages with dance. That does not mean that I don’t put it on my professional pages. You just have to watch my stories. I have little reels on my feed where I dance. If you want to see the choreography, the stuff I do, follow my stories. I will make a commitment to post more there. I do put it up on my stories, so you have to follow those on Facebook and Instagram primarily. That’s @DrPingel on Instagram and Dr. Tricia Pingel on Facebook.
If people ask me to post something, I’ll post it. Just tell me. Send a note. I’ll post one today. How about that?
Dr. Eric:
Sounds great. Dr. Tricia, this was amazing. Really enjoyed chatting with you. Will definitely have to get you back in the future. There’s so much more to talk about. In the meantime, check out Dr. Tricia’s website, her podcast, her book, her social media. Thank you again.
Dr. Tricia:
Thank you! Keep on dancin’.
***
Dr. Eric:
That really was an excellent conversation with Dr. Tricia. Saying no more frequently is something we all need to do. Or many of us. Maybe some people listening to this do a really good job of saying no. That does tie into your adrenal health, your overall health. Taking on too many things because you don’t want to say no. I definitely do a better job of saying no compared to five, 10, 15 years ago but still could do a better job in that area.
Not taking care of yourself as much as you should. When I spoke about this during our conversation, if you’re a mom with children, you need to focus on taking care of family members in some cases. I understand. You just want to make sure you take care of yourself.
That’s something I see commonly when working with people 1:1. When doing the initial consultation, they will say that they really don’t take care of themselves as much as they should because they’re too busy focusing on others. You want to try to get that balance. I understand it’s difficult. If there’s a mom of four or five kids or more, that can really be difficult. In many cases, I won’t say it’s an uncommon situation, a mom with young children, but there are other situations where people aren’t taking good care of themselves. Do the best that you can. You do need to focus on your health as well.
Dancing and the parasympathetic nervous system. I was chatting with Dr. Tricia about how I really consider dancing more of a sympathetic activity, kind of like exercise. You go to the gym, lift weights, go on the exercise bike or rowing machine, etc. To me, those are more sympathetic activities. At least prior to our conversation, would consider dancing, especially hip-hop. If you see Dr. Tricia dance, I’d think that was more of a sympathetic activity.
I understand what she’s saying. If you’re not worrying about what others are thinking or the moves, maybe when learning how to dance, that can be stressful and more sympathetic. Once you know how to dance, and you let go, let loose, it is activating parasympathetic.
I understand that. Something to keep in mind if you don’t want to do meditation, deep breathing, other types of mind-body medicine but want to dance. If you haven’t done dancing, it might initially start out as a sympathetic activity and eventually a parasympathetic activity.
Healing is a work in progress. She mentioned how she’s still healing from adrenal fatigue. I mentioned how stress management on my end is always a work in progress. Even though I have been in remission for a long time, it still does take some work to maintain a state of wellness. That’s not to deter people from trying to restore their health. It’s definitely more challenging to restore one’s health than to maintain one’s health. You also need to work a little bit to maintain your health.
Adrenal fatigue versus HPA axis dysregulation. I bring this up commonly when I have a conversation about adrenals and adrenal fatigue. She mentioned she had stage II adrenal fatigue. I still use the term “adrenal fatigue” at times because people understand that. Adrenal fatigue is really dysregulation of the HPA axis. They’re synonymous. Some might argue that they’re not. Some will say that adrenal fatigue is not a real term, just a term that people have used for many years. The adrenals don’t really get fatigued; they get dysregulated. The pituitary gland, which is the master gland, communicates with the adrenals. The hypothalamus communicates with the pituitary.
Chewing your food. This was toward the end. It’s important. A lot of people don’t chew their food enough. Besides doing that to enhance digestion, if you’re gobbling down your food, that’s also a sign that maybe you are in constant fight or flight mode.
I gave the example of my friend who swallows all these pills years ago. I have no idea how he did that because I’m pretty sure I would choke if I swallowed even multiple capsules. Tablets are a little bit different, but capsules at the same time.
Getting back to food. Definitely chew your food. Take your time when eating meals. Try to focus on the meals or have a conversation with someone. Don’t just be on electronics all the time.
Adrenal supplements. Both Dr. Tricia and I like them, but they’re not a replacement for diet and lifestyle. I would assume most people listening to this know this. There are some people who over-rely on supplements and don’t do enough from a diet and stress management and sleep perspective.
The importance of mindset. Mindset definitely is important when it comes to healing. This definitely will not be the last time I mention it. I’m mentioning it here because we discussed it in this episode. You really want to try to have as positive of a mindset as you can. You definitely can change your mindset. It’s not easy to change your mindset, but you can do it.
A lot goes into balancing the adrenals. As we discussed, it’s more than just adrenals. It’s regulating the nervous system. The nervous system controls not only the adrenals but the thyroid, gut, and immune system. The nervous system controls everything. Sometimes, we get stuck, and we might need to go beyond mind-body medicine. Maybe we need to do some hip-hop dancing. Maybe we need to go beyond hip-hop dancing and incorporate vagus nerve exercises or some brain or nervous system retraining.
I think that’s all I’ll talk about here. Really enjoyed chatting with Dr. Tricia. Make sure you check out my interview that will eventually be on her podcast. When this is out, it might still not be live on her podcast. She has a longer wait than I do.
It’s always a balancing act, trying to make sure I have enough guests but trying not to have people wait six months before they get on. I understand when other podcasters do it. They’d rather make sure they have plenty of episodes in the bank. I do the same. I try to have at least one month’s worth of episodes. There have been times where I’ve had 3-4 months’ worth of episodes. Like I said, I don’t want people to wait too long.
Hope you found this episode to be valuable. Thank you so much for listening. Look forward to catching you in the next episode.