In this episode, Dr. Eric Osansky explores mushrooms and thyroid health, with a particular focus on Graves’ disease and Hashimoto’s. One common concern is whether mushrooms “boost” the immune system and therefore should be avoided by people with autoimmune conditions. Dr. Eric explains why it may be more accurate to think of mushrooms as immune modulators and discusses how their polysaccharides, beta-glucans, and other compounds may influence regulatory T cells and Th17 cells involved in autoimmunity.
Dr. Eric also looks at the potential benefits of mushrooms for the gut microbiome and compares culinary mushrooms with concentrated medicinal mushroom supplements. He takes a closer look at reishi, cordyceps, lion’s mane, maitake, chaga, shiitake, and turkey tail, including research suggesting cordyceps may have potential benefits for thyroid antibodies. He also discusses what to consider when choosing a mushroom supplement, including extracts versus powders, third-party testing, fruiting bodies versus mycelium, beta-glucans, and precautions for certain individuals.
Ultimately, mushrooms shouldn’t be viewed as a treatment for Graves’ disease or Hashimoto’s or as a replacement for identifying triggers, healing the gut, and addressing other underlying factors. However, both culinary and medicinal mushrooms may have a place in a whole-body approach to supporting gut and immune health. Tune in to better understand mushrooms, thyroid autoimmunity, and what that connection really means.
Click Here [1] to listen to it on the Save My Thyroid
Dr. Eric Osansky:
Let’s go ahead and talk about mushrooms and thyroid health with an emphasis on thyroid autoimmunity. There is some controversy over whether or not those with autoimmune conditions should eat mushrooms or take mushroom supplements. Should they avoid them because of the impact that they have on the immune system?
In this episode, I am going to talk about culinary mushrooms, medicinal mushrooms and mushroom supplements, the impact of mushrooms on the gut microbiome, and potential risks and precautions.
Let’s start off by discussing what are mushrooms? Some label mushrooms as vegetables. They are actually fungi. They are not plants. They have different nutritional components, including dietary fiber; B vitamins, including thymine and riboflavin (B1 and B2); certain minerals; polysaccharides including alpha- and beta-glucans. Something called ergothioneine, which is an antioxidant found in higher concentrations in certain mushrooms such as shiitake. I wrote an article in 2022 that focused on mushrooms. There will be a little bit of overlap. I refer to that article and have it with me here.
I’ll say this: Mushrooms don’t boost the immune system. They modulate the immune system. We’ll get that out of the way. I haven’t seen them exacerbate autoimmune conditions such as Graves’ and Hashimoto’s. If anything, they can be helpful. The research does seem to support that.
When it comes to the gut microbiome, mushrooms may act like prebiotics. Certain mushroom components reach the large intestine, where they can interact with gut microorganisms. There is plenty of research showing that mushrooms and mushroom polysaccharides can benefit the gut microbiome. They can alter microbial composition, support microbial diversity, influence microbial metabolites, potentially increase beneficial bacteria, and even to some extent, affect intestinal inflammation. Specifically, as far as the mushroom polysaccharides, they may even have anti-inflammatory effects, metabolic effects, anti-diabetic effects, potential anti-tumor effects.
What’s important is all these are through modulation of the gut microbiome. Not to say that they can’t have other benefits. The big role when it comes to mushrooms and mushroom polysaccharides is the effects they have on the gut microbiome.
Getting back to whether mushrooms are safe for autoimmune conditions, the studies actually show that mushrooms in a positive way affect regulatory T cells. I have spoken about this in other episodes. Regulatory T cells, or T regs, suppress autoimmunity, so you want to have an abundance of regulatory T cells. You have what’s called Th17 cells, which promote autoimmunity. You don’t want to have too many Th17 cells.
The research shows that many of these mushrooms help balance these regulatory T cells. The T reg/Th17 balance. They help to increase regulatory T cells and decrease Th17 cells, which is what you want if you have any autoimmune condition.
Is this true for both food sources, like culinary mushrooms, compared to medicinal or mushroom supplements? The answer is yes. Whether you eat mushrooms or take mushroom supplements. There is always exceptions. I have not seen anything in the research. It’s not like I have every single patient of mine take mushroom supplements. Those who have, I do have a supplement called Hepatommune Supreme, which is not just mushrooms. It has reishi, cordyceps, liver support. A lot of people take it for liver support. It has NAC, milk thistle, schisandra. I haven’t really seen any issues with that.
You can react to any supplement, but as far as eating mushrooms, like white button, portobello, shiitake, lion’s mane, these are all beneficial to the immune system but probably moreso to the gut microbiome. I would not expect to eat shiitake mushrooms or lion’s mane. We’ll talk more about these individual mushrooms. I wouldn’t expect eating the foods to suppress those Th17 cells and enhance the regulatory T-cells, at least not significantly. Medicinal mushrooms, mushroom supplements, we’ll do a better job of that. As far as supporting the gut microbiome, without question.
If you are willing and able to eat mushrooms, the good news is they are allowed on an AIP diet and paleo diet. For those who have read The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet, they are allowed on all three diets I talk about in the book.
Taking mushroom supplements obviously is going to be a little different than eating mushrooms. They will provide higher concentrations of certain polysaccharides like beta-glucans and other bioactive compounds. It’s not exactly the same. If you’re looking to modulate the immune system, the medicinal mushrooms and supplements will have greater impact than eating the foods.
If you’re looking for those gut microbiome effects, probably the food sources are more beneficial. You certainly can do both. You can eat mushrooms and take mushroom supplements. I don’t think everybody needs to do this on a consistent basis. There is a time and place for that.
What I’d like to do next is discuss the different mushrooms that I mention in the article from 2022. The reason why I focused on those specific mushrooms is because some of them are well-known, like lion’s mane, but others like reishi and cordyceps, especially cordyceps, as far as the effects it has on the immune system, that T-reg/Th17 balance. But there are others I won’t discuss here.
Let’s start with reishi. It’s probably the most extensively studied medicinal mushroom. This is one of the mushrooms you won’t want to eat. If you are utilizing reishi, it would be as a medicinal mushroom. It has beta-glucans and other polysaccharides, that immunomodulatory property that many mushrooms has. Potential anti-inflammatory effects.
When it comes specifically to thyroid health or thyroid autoimmunity, there really aren’t any studies showing that reishi helps specifically with Graves’ or Hashimoto’s. That doesn’t mean it can’t benefit.
Cordyceps on the other hand, very interesting. There was a study that involved 44 people with Graves’ as well as 56 people with Hashimoto’s. That study reported reductions in thyroid antibodies following treatment with cordyceps. It’s a relatively small study. Definitely more research needs to be done. I am not suggesting that everyone with Graves’ and Hashimoto’s should take cordyceps. It all comes down to finding and removing triggers and healing the gut. There are a lot of supplements that modulate the immune system.
A good comparison is selenium. Selenium is a mineral. There are a number of studies that show that selenium also helps support the immune system and in many cases can lower antibodies. This is in the research. Most of my patients take selenium, and I can’t say that selenium alone, honestly selenium in combination with other supplements, will lower antibodies until you once again find and remove triggers and do things to heal the gut.
Very interesting. If someone is hitting a roadblock in their recovery, where their thyroid antibodies aren’t decreasing and normalizing, is cordyceps and/or reishi the missing piece of the puzzle? In most cases, probably not. But it could be worth trying.
I get questions about peptides. I don’t get as many questions about mushrooms. Mushrooms are equally as interesting as peptides, I would say.
Let’s talk about lion’s mane. One of the more well-known mushrooms. You could eat lion’s mane or take it in supplement form. Same thing with cordyceps. Lion’s mane, if you’re looking to focus on that T-reg/Th17 balance, it does have some immunomodulatory properties. This wouldn’t be my first choice. On the other hand, it is well-known for supporting brain and nerve health, cognitive function. If someone has depression, there is some evidence that it might prevent dementia. Helping with neurological health.
There is some evidence that it may increase regulatory T cells. Gut microbiome, it can potentially help reduce intestinal inflammation. There is no good evidence that lion’s mane directly improves thyroid directly or directly affects thyroid autoimmunity. Stronger with cordyceps and reishi.
Maitake is also a mushroom that you can eat and take in supplement form. A good source of fiber, minerals, polysaccharides. Also has immunomodulatory effects, anti-inflammatory properties, potential metabolic benefits, supports the gut microbiome.
If you want to eat this mushroom, wonderful. You could also take it in supplement form. This is probably one I wouldn’t take individually. If you wanted to take it in combination with other mushrooms in supplement form, that’s fine.
Chaga is another mushroom. Like reishi, you wouldn’t want to eat chaga. You want to take it in supplement form. Good source of polysaccharides, antioxidant activity. There are a couple of studies showing it can potentially regulate T-reg/Th17 balance, which is great. Supports gut microbiota. There is some evidence it can help with tight junction proteins, including zonulin, which are associated with increasing intestinal permeability.
However, one thing to mention about chaga is- I have spoken about oxalates. I have had guests like Sally K. Norton, who wrote Toxic Superfoods. High oxalates in some people are a concern. Chaga has higher oxalates. Definitely want to be cautious about chaga.
Those are the five I focused on in the article. I did mention others like shiitake. You can eat shiitake and take it in supplement form. A great source of beta-glucans. It has prebiotic effects and can modulate the immune system.
There is turkey tail. You wouldn’t want to eat turkey tail. You would take it in supplement form. There is some immune system and gut microbiome effects.
Getting back to whether any of these mushrooms can directly affect the thyroid. There really isn’t evidence that I was able to find. All of this is on the gut and immune system, which play a huge role in all autoimmune conditions. If you have one autoimmune condition, you are at greater risk of developing other autoimmune conditions. If you have Graves’ and RA or Hashimoto’s and MS, regardless of what type of autoimmune condition you have, mushrooms could be beneficial in modulating the immune system and supporting the gut microbiome.
The food sources in my opinion, from what I have read and researched, are better for supporting gut microbiome. In supplement form, it depends.
Lion’s mane is one of the more well-known mushrooms, but it wouldn’t be my first choice for immune system modulation. #1 would be cordyceps and reishi and the others I mentioned. Lion’s mane also may affect those regulatory T cells. It’s not like it has any impact on the immune system. It definitely seems like there is more evidence with some of the other mushrooms.
Let’s talk about choosing a mushroom supplement. You obviously want to know what mushroom you’re taking. I just mentioned different mushrooms. If someone doesn’t have much knowledge, they might hear someone talking about lion’s mane and take it. It has some great benefits, but that wouldn’t be my #1 choice when trying to modulate the immune system.
Not to keep on talking about my supplement, but Hepatommune Supreme has cordyceps and reishi. There are other supplements that have both. There are mushroom supplements where you can take cordyceps separately. There are ones that have cordyceps and reishi and others, like lion’s mane. It’s really up to you.
You also need to decide if you want to take it in extract form or powder form. Extract could be the liquid capsules, like herbs. Not exactly the same. Some will say it’s better absorbed when you take it as an extract. Mushroom powder, you can just add to smoothies, for example. Both of those could be beneficial. Some will say an extract is better than mushroom powder.
You want to be careful with mushroom powder. A good quality supplement company is not simply grinding the mushroom, making it into powder, and putting it into a bag. It’s more involved than that. You want concentrated extract powders if you get it in that form, not raw, ground-up mushrooms. If companies are doing that, you don’t want that.
Some will list the beta-glucan content. Usually from what I have seen, they don’t. It’s great to get one that’s third party tested, so you know what you’re getting. They also usually look at contaminants, including heavy metals.
Those are some of the different things you’d want to look for when choosing a mushroom supplement.
As far as risks and precautions, who should be cautious with taking mushroom supplements? Even food. If someone has a mushroom allergy, they probably don’t want to take supplements or eat mushrooms. If you’re pregnant, breastfeeding, eating mushrooms should be okay, but mushroom supplements, not a lot of research on that. Something to run by a practitioner if you are working with one.
If you’re taking immune suppressant medications, anticoagulant antiplatelet medications, any medication, you could always check with your doctor or pharmacist. If you’re having upcoming surgery. If you have oxalate concerns, especially with chaga, you might want to be cautious with that specific mushroom.
Safety considerations. When it comes to eating mushrooms is not the same as taking concentrated extracts. For the most part, they’re safe, but everybody is different. As I think I mentioned, you can react to any supplement. Even magnesium, rare, and sometimes it’s not the supplement but the fillers in the supplement. This is why you always want to choose good quality supplements.
I’ll wrap things up by mentioning mushrooms shouldn’t be viewed as a treatment for Graves’ or Hashimoto’s. I’m not shy about recommending or taking supplements, but my goal as a practitioner is to prioritize supplements. That’s why I don’t have everybody take mushroom supplements.
Whenever I do an episode talking about a supplement, including this one, even though you can also eat mushrooms. If you enjoy eating mushrooms, eat them. They have such great benefits on the gut microbiome.
Should you take mushroom supplements? Some people certainly take my Hepatommune Supreme, but that also has liver support. I am not recommending that to everybody, even for liver support. For those who take it for liver support, they are also getting the benefits of the mushrooms.
If you’re willing to eat mushrooms, eat them. As I mentioned, the food sources are great for the gut microbiome. If you want to do things to enhance the immune system, and if mushrooms are on your radar, reishi, cordyceps are two, especially cordyceps, that you might want to look into.
I think that’s all I want to say. Hope you found this episode to be valuable. Like I said, mushrooms are great. Always try to prioritize food. There is overlap and differences in food and supplements, so you won’t necessarily get the benefits from supplements as you would from food, and vice versa. If I had to choose one over the other, I would say to eat mushrooms than take the supplement.
If you want extra immune system support, and not just for Graves’ or Hashimoto’s, but in the winter, when more people are more susceptible to getting sick, mushrooms might also help to prevent people from getting sick as well. Something to consider. Around November/December/January, I try to take things to enhance my immune system.
Thanks so much for listening. Hope you found the episode to be valuable. Look forward to catching you in the next episode.
***
Let’s talk more about mushrooms and the gut. As I mentioned, just about every mushroom will support the gut microbiome. If you’re willing to eat mushrooms, then eat them. I’m not a big mushroom fan myself, so I can’t say I eat a lot of mushrooms. That doesn’t mean you can’t eat mushrooms if you enjoy eating them. Definitely eat some to support the gut microbiome.
Do mushrooms boost the immune system? I spoke a little bit about this, but it’s worth repeating. There is some concern about mushrooms exacerbating the autoimmune component of those with Graves’ or Hashimoto’s or other autoimmune conditions. As I mentioned, the research seems to support that mushrooms help to increase regulatory T cells and decrease Th17 cells. Both of those benefit autoimmune conditions.
You want an abundance of regulatory T cells. When you have autoimmunity, you want to have lower amounts of Th17 cells. As I mentioned, many mushrooms that I mentioned seem to help with that T reg/Th17 balance. I haven’t seen anything about mushrooms worsening autoimmunity.
Choosing a mushroom supplement. I don’t think there are a lot of options these days. It’s certainly not like Vitamin D or even herbs like milk thistle. Maybe we’re heading there where every company will have a mushroom supplement. Just be careful.
I mentioned my own supplement, that I am not bringing up to promote, but it is one option. There are other options. The Hepatommune Supreme, as I mentioned, I recommend more for liver support because it has a lot of beneficial ingredients for liver. NAC, milk thistle, schisandra. It does have reishi and cordyceps, which I mentioned during the episode that study that showed that cordyceps can help people with Graves’ or Hashimoto’s as far as antibodies.
There are other companies that have cordyceps supplements and other mushroom supplements. Real Mushrooms seems to be a good company. They have more than just reishi and cordyceps. If you are looking to experiment with other mushrooms I mentioned, you might want to check them out.
The Hepatommune Supreme is going to be on the Save My Thyroid store. Real Mushrooms is also on that store. The Online Dispensary page on my website has a lot of different supplements, not just mine, but other brands, too.
Fruiting body versus mycelium. I didn’t talk about this during the episode. Fruiting body is the visible mushroom part, whereas the mycelium is the root web. When looking at a plant, think of the roots of the plant. That’s similar to the mycelium.
Usually, when purchasing mushroom supplements, you want to make sure that it has at least partially the fruiting body. An example might be cordyceps. I forgot the reason why, but many times, cordyceps just includes the mycelium. Other than that, from what I understand, I am not a mushroom expert.
I know with Hepatommune, reishi consists of both the fruiting body and the mycelium, and the cordyceps is just the mycelium. Many supplements with cordyceps just have the mycelium. The fruiting body is typically higher in polysaccharides such as beta-glucans.
If you are getting a broad-spectrum mushroom supplement that has five or more mushrooms, most of them should have at least partially the fruiting body. If you get a mushroom supplement that has four, five, or more different mushrooms, if it doesn’t say anything about fruiting bodies, not just the mycelium, you want to stay away from that.
Ergothioneine is worth mentioning. That is an antioxidant found in higher concentrations in certain mushrooms, such as shiitake. Real Mushrooms also has an ergothioneine supplement. I have not tried it. I have not recommended it at this point. I know they talk about it.
Lee Carroll talks about it. Lee is an herbalist. He is the founder or one of the owners. He used to work with MediHerb. Maybe he still does. I listened to one of his interviews, where he was raving about ergothioneine. He seems to know what he is talking about.
Glutathione is a great antioxidant. I am not saying everybody needs to take ergothioneine. In some cases, it may be worth considering.
Thanks so much for listening. Hope you found the episode to be valuable. Look forward to catching you in the next one.