Hyperthyroidism can feel chaotic until you understand the system behind your symptoms. Are you recognizing them?This episode walks through the five (5) parts of the SAVED Thyroid Method, a healing framework that I recommend to my patients. SAVED serves as an acronym for each step, detailing how every component can gently influence antibody activity in hyperthyroidism. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

This episode is to discuss my SAVED Thyroid Method, which is the framework I recommend to my patients with hyperthyroidism. 

SAVED is an acronym that stands for Safe symptom management; Align adrenals and blood sugar; Vanquish infections and heal the gut; Eliminate reactive foods and toxins; and Detect and remove hidden triggers. 

The goal of course is to help balance the thyroid, calm the immune system, heal the gut, just do everything that’s necessary to restore the person’s health

Let’s go ahead and start with Safe symptom management. When someone works with me, the #1 goal isn’t to manage the symptoms but address the underlying cause of the problem, to essentially restore the person’s health, so they can avoid radioactive iodine or thyroid surgery and feel great again. 

It’s important to be safe while addressing the underlying cause of hyperthyroidism. There are different ways you could safely manage symptoms. When you go to an endocrinologist, they will typically recommend antithyroid medication; an example is methimazole or PTU. There is also carbimazole for those who are outside of the United States. 

Sometimes, they will give beta blockers such as propranolol, which not only lowers your resting heart rate but can at least decrease the conversion of T4 to T3. Some will recommend methimazole and propranolol together. There are other beta blockers, like metoprolol or atenolol. Those are the ways that conventional endocrinologists will recommend. 

Of course, sometimes they recommend radioactive iodine or thyroid surgery. We are really talking about symptom management. Not that removing your thyroid isn’t managing the symptoms. 

Let’s talk about some of the natural strategies to support symptoms. Many of you know that when I dealt with Graves’, I was able to avoid antithyroid medication. There is definitely a time and place for antithyroid medication. When I work with people, some people do take antithyroid medication. 

The good thing about antithyroid medication is it almost always works. The downside is that side effects are common. Not everybody does well when taking it. Some people, like myself, choose not to try taking it although I would have been open to taking it if the natural methods didn’t work. Thankfully, they did.

I took bugleweed, which is an herb with antithyroid properties. That did a wonderful job of managing my symptoms. I took MediHerb bugleweed, which is based out of Australia. I took MediHerb motherwort. They both did a great job of managing my symptoms. I started with the bugleweed. The bugleweed alone helped, but I was still having heart palpitations, so that’s why I added motherwort. 

There are others as well. I wasn’t as familiar with lemon balm when I dealt with Graves’, so I didn’t take it as a result. I did fine without it. Lemon balm has some mild antithyroid properties. It has a calming effect. If someone is experiencing anxiety, sleep issues, just taking bugleweed, for example, may help, but in some cases, they might benefit from having lemon balm as well. 

Even drinking lemon balm tea. Keep in mind that the tea isn’t as potent as the extract. Even with bugleweed, they will try to make it in tea form. Usually, it doesn’t do a good job of managing their symptoms.

Then there is L-carnitine. L-carnitine is also something I wasn’t familiar with when I dealt with Graves’. I didn’t take L-carnitine. Not everybody needs to take L-carnitine. Even if I was familiar with L-carnitine at the time, it doesn’t mean I definitely would have taken it. 

Usually, bugleweed is what I start with. Sometimes, motherwort. Most commonly, bugleweed and motherwort. The research shows that taking between 2,000-4,000mg of L-carnitine can block the entry of thyroid hormone into the cell. Typically, you want to take L-carnitine tartrate although you could do a combination of L-carnitine tartrate with acetyl L-carnitine. 

A recent study that I did a podcast episode on is from August 2025. It discussed combining selenium with L-carnitine. Not high doses, only 500mg of L-carnitine and 83mcg of selenium helps people who are already taking antithyroid medication. The study was methimazole. Specific for those with Graves’. Those who took the selenium and L-carnitine were able to take a lower dose of methimazole. It also had a good impact on thyroid antibodies.

Those are some of the more common natural agents for symptom management. There is also lithium orotate. Lithium carbonate is a prescription medication typically used as an antidepressant. Not as commonly used for that purpose today. They realized that caused hypothyroidism in a lot of people. Lithium orotate is over the counter but not as potent. It can also help with symptom management. 

LDN modulates the immune system. It’s hit or miss, but that is an option if someone can’t tolerate medication, and the natural agents aren’t effective. 

Cholestyramine is a binding agent used by a lot of functional medicine practitioners for mycotoxins from mold. It can also bind to thyroid hormone. 

That’s the S part of the SAVED method. Let’s move on to A, which is align adrenals and blood sugar. 

When I dealt with Graves’, my adrenals were not in good shape. I didn’t realize how bad they were just because I figured I was doing a good job of managing the stress. Thankfully, I did an adrenal saliva test because otherwise, I wouldn’t have realized how bad my adrenals were. My cortisol was low, my DHEA was low, my secretory IgA was low. It did take some work to restore the health of my adrenals. 

Stress management played a big role. Getting sufficient sleep played a big role. Taking supplements to support adrenals and low cortisol was helpful. I think a big factor was not just emotional stress but overtraining, so overexercising. 

When aligning adrenals, you definitely need to address the cause of the adrenal dysfunction in the first place. Stress is common. It could be stored trauma. It doesn’t have to be recent stressors; it could be stressors from many years ago. It could be physical stressors. But you do want to address this cause and block out time for stress management on a daily basis, not just every other day. You want to get in the routine of stress handling. 

Stress causes a lot of problems. Stress is important for the conversion of T4 to T3. Also, I mentioned when I did my adrenal test, not only were cortisol and DHEA low, but something called secretory IgA was low, which lines the mucosal surfaces of the body, including the GI tract. That’s one way that chronic stress can affect the gut. Overall, it causes dysregulation of the immune system, especially when someone has high cortisol. That increases proinflammatory cytokines, which are associated with Graves’. Stress is a big factor.

Whenever I work with someone one-on-one, I have them fill out a health history. Most of the time, they are putting down stress as a factor. When they don’t, I question it. Are they like I was years ago, where they think stress isn’t a factor, where they think they’re handling stress well? Even if someone is retired and they don’t think stress is a factor, many times, it could be. Something to consider. I wouldn’t rule out stress as being a factor so quickly. 

Blood sugar imbalances. Very common as well. Some people have hypoglycemia. Insulin resistance is more common. Your body isn’t sensitive to insulin. 

Diet definitely plays a role, as do stress and sleep. Diet and lifestyle could play a big role. Usually, there is an inflammatory component when it comes to insulin resistance. You might not be able to reverse it alone with just diet and lifestyle. Definitely want to start with diet and lifestyle.

How do you know if you have insulin resistance? Fasting glucose is what is most commonly used. If someone has a fasting glucose greater than 100, here in the United States at least, they might get a hemoglobin A1C. When someone is 5.7, they are prediabetic. Even if someone is 5.5, 5.6, on the higher side. It’s not a perfect marker, hemoglobin A1C. I would say to do it as well as fasting insulin. If fasting insulin is too high, greater than 5, that could be a concern. Definitely greater than 7. Those are some markers to look at to try to determine if someone has insulin resistance. 

Like I said, diet does play a role. In this day and age, a lot of people are doing intermittent fasting, which in some cases can help with insulin resistance. You of course want to make sure that if you are doing any type of fasting, you’re getting enough nutrients or protein. 

You want to be careful about extreme fasting because that could be a stressor on your body. If someone is doing 18-20 hours of fasting and only has a 4-5-hour eating window, that’s not great. Some people aren’t even ready for a 16-8 fast. Just be careful when it comes to eating. 

I mentioned overtraining and exercising. You also want to be careful about this when talking about adrenal health. 

Let’s move on to the V, vanquish infections and heal the gut. I can’t say this is necessarily in the order I go. Safe symptom management is definitely up there. You probably want to do that first. Then address the cause of the problem. Align adrenals and blood sugar is up there. Vanquish infections and healing the gut is definitely important, but not everybody has infections. You definitely want to heal the gut. A healthy gut is important, but there could be other factors, including the next part of the SAVED method. 

Infections: viruses; parasites; bacteria, like H-pylori; overgrowths, like candida or SIBO. Infections can be a factor with autoimmune conditions. EBV, which has been shown to be a trigger of Graves’ and Hashimoto’s in the literature. During the pandemic in 2020, definitely had a lot of people who got COVID who developed Graves’. You could also develop subacute thyroiditis, which is a different type of hyperthyroid condition. That is typically caused by a virus. 

Bacteria, H-pylori could be a trigger. Parasites could be a factor. 

I wouldn’t say SIBO and candida overgrowth are triggers, but they could affect permeability of the gut, which for someone with Graves’, that could be a factor. 

There is the triad of autoimmunity: genetic predisposition, exposure to one or more environmental triggers, and the leaky gut. Could definitely set the stage for autoimmunity. 

Even if you don’t have gut infections, or other infections, as vanquishing infections is not just tied to healing the gut. When it comes to thyroid autoimmunity, other types of infections as well can play a role. When I spoke about viruses, I am not talking about viruses in the gut, even though some viruses can affect the gut. There are gut infections you want to address of course. 

There is the 5R protocol for gut healing. The first R is Remove, removing things such as gut infections. We’ll talk next about foods and toxins/toxicants. You want to remove the factor that is causing the gut dysbiosis, which is the imbalance in the gut flora. Also, the leaky gut. 

Replace is the next R. Replace things like digestive enzymes, if necessary; stomach acid, if necessary; bile salts, if necessary. 

The next R is Reinoculate with prebiotics and probiotics. There is a place for both food and supplements. 

The next R is Repair. Things like drinking bone broth, or if you are a vegan/vegetarian, cabbage juice. Then there are supplements such as L-glutamine and aloe vera and zinc carnosine and DGL licorice. 

The final R stands for Rebalance the parasympathetic system through mind/body medicine, Vagas nerve exercises, nervous system retraining. 

I kind of skipped over evaluating gut health. Certainly, there is a time and place for comprehensive stool tests, SIBO breath tests. Some people do need to see a gastroenterologist. Some people do need an endoscopy. Not a huge fan of endoscopies and colonoscopies, but there is a time and place for them.

The next component of SAVED is E, eliminate reactive foods and toxins. I wrote a book called The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet. If you haven’t read it, I highly recommend doing so. There are three types of diets I talk about. 

The one I typically recommend for Graves’ is a Level 3 diet, which is a modified AIP diet. Avoid allergens such as gluten, dairy, corn, soy, and other foods that could affect healing of the gut, such as nightshades, grains, even gluten-free grains. It’s not easy following an AIP/Level 3 diet. There is also a Level 2 diet, which is similar to a modified paleo diet, which is a little easier. Still not easy, but easier. 

Again, you definitely want to eliminate inflammatory foods. It goes without saying that you definitely want to avoid fast foods, refined foods and sugars. Even some foods like nightshades— tomatoes, eggplant, peppers—all have some good health benefits, but in some people, they can be inflammatory and prevent gut healing. That’s part of an elimination diet, to take a break from them initially. For more information, check out that book. You can find it on Amazon. 

Toxins and toxicants. Toxins are natural in our environment, like mycotoxins from mold, whereas xenoestrogens, microplastics, BPA, those are toxicants. Man-made. There are lots of toxins and toxicants. There’re mycotoxins; xenoestrogens; glyphosate, which is the active ingredient in Roundup; pesticides; heavy metals; flame retardants. 

What I would say is start in your own home. There is only so much you can do outside of your home. Eating organic food will minimize exposure to pesticides. Your cleaners and cosmetics, try to switch to as many natural cleaners and cosmetics as you can. If you find it overwhelming, start with the one or two you use most frequently, and switch to more natural options. 

The water you drink. I would not recommend drinking water out of plastic bottles on a daily basis. Stainless steel or glass are good options. 

Showering. Get a whole house filter or shower filter, so you’re bathing in cleaner water. Might not be perfect, but better than the tap water. 

Get an air purifier. There are lots of things you can do. 

You can do sauna to sweat out toxins. If you have overt hyperthyroidism, if you’re not managing your hyperthyroidism, and you have an elevated resting heart rate, sauna could further elevate your heart rate. You do want to be careful here. You might not want to go in a sauna. First, consult with a practitioner and get their advice. 

You could support detoxification through food, sweating. There is a time and place for supplementation like NAC, milk thistle. I have a supplement called Hepatommune Supreme that has NAC, milk thistle, schisandra. Also offers some immune system support.

The fifth component of the SAVED method is D, detect and remove hidden triggers. What are hidden triggers? There are a good number of them. For example, we could argue that many of the toxins and toxicants are hidden. Someone might have mold in their home. They don’t know. Maybe there is no obvious water damage, but mold is still a problem. 

Or they have some other chemical exposure. Toxins and toxicants. The products you use. I don’t know if you’d say those are hidden because you know you’re using them, but you might not be aware of the ingredients. That’s some detective work. Reading ingredients is important. 

With mold, you might have to get a really good mold inspector. You can do your own testing as well. 

There are EMFs, which definitely are hidden. You can use an EMF detector. EMFs don’t affect everybody the same way. I think they’re still overlooked, even after 5G is everywhere now. Something that could drag down our immune system. 

At the very least, unplug the WiFi at night before going to bed. Probably want to do more than that. At the very least, do that. Minimize electronics in your bedroom where you sleep. Minimize blue light exposure before going to bed. 

Poor oral health is another hidden trigger. Mercury amalgams, root canals, gum disease, like periodontitis. I am not a dentist, so go to a biological dentist. Visit the International Academy for Oral Medicine and Toxicology, IAOMT.org. You can do a search for a biological dentist, even if you’re in another country.

I mentioned stress, but stored trauma, trauma from many years ago. We don’t think that could be a factor, but that could dysregulate our nervous system. Our nervous system controls everything in the body, including the immune system and thyroid. Stored trauma could play a role. 

I mentioned infections. Many times, they are hidden. They might not feel bad. We might feel bad, and we just don’t know. You feel fatigued, and maybe you’re thinking it’s just adrenals. But maybe you have Lyme or bartonella, and you’re having some pain with that, too. 

I dealt with chronic Lyme as well as bartonella in 2018. My symptoms back then were more neurological. It was still hidden. It wasn’t like I knew right off the bat that I had Lyme. When I suspected I might have Lyme, I didn’t expect bartonella to show up on the testing.

Sometimes, it’s challenging to find these. You could have false negatives with Lyme and bartonella. Getting an EMF detector. Oral health, seeing a biological dentist. For toxins, you could do some testing, but you can’t test for every single toxin and toxicant out there.

In a nutshell, that’s the SAVED Thyroid Method. You want to start with symptom management, so you’re safe while going through the rest of the steps. Aligning adrenals and blood sugar. Then vanquishing any infections. Healing the gut, which you need a healthy gut to have a healthy thyroid. Eliminate reactive foods and toxins and toxicants. Definitely don’t ignore the hidden triggers. 

For even more information on the SAVED Thyroid Method, I have a free training called the Graves’ Disease Survival Roadmap, which you can access in my free Healing Graves’ Naturally community, which is on a platform called School. You can check it out and join by visiting SaveMyThyroid.com/HealGravesDisease. 

For now, it’s free to join. Eventually, I’m pretty sure it will become a paid community. While it will be at a very low cost probably to join in the future, at this stage, you can be part of it at no cost, which means you can take advantage of the support, resources, and discussions while it’s still open and freely available. 

Part of the reason it will eventually be paid is because I don’t want it to get as large as my Facebook groups. I have two Facebook groups, one that focuses on hyperthyroidism and Graves’ that is almost 25,000 people. I kid around and say how it’s great for my ego. I’m proud of building a community of that many people, but it’s really hard to stay engaged. It becomes a little overwhelming. For the members, that could be the case, too.

As of recording this, there is a little less than 400 people. By the time this episode comes out, it will probably exceed that. Once it reaches 1,000, I probably will make it a paid community. But we’ll see. I don’t want it to get as large as the hyperthyroidism/Graves’ Facebook groups.

When people join, one of the biggest values people are getting is hope beyond the standard three options that most endocrinologists talk about. Instead of just being told the only choices are medication, radioactive iodine, or thyroid surgery, we’ll talk about root cause approaches to help you move forward, so you could save your thyroid.

Another benefit is guidance from someone who’s been there. I personally overcame Graves’. I was diagnosed in 2008 and been in remission since 2009. Of course, I created that SAVED Thyroid Method, which you can learn a lot more about by going through that training. I gave an overview during this episode, but we’ll go into greater detail in the Graves’ Survival Roadmap training. Like I said, I have been more involved in this group. I have been more engaged with this group. 

Also, evidence-based natural solutions. Recently, I released an episode not too long ago on L-carnitine and selenium, which was based on an August 2025 study on how that could help lower the dose of methimazole for people taking the antithyroid meds and also help with antibodies. 

If you have been following me for a while, you know that even though I give some things that have worked for me and people I’m working with, I also do a lot of research to try to keep up with the latest developments related to hyperthyroidism and Graves’. 

You will get access to the Graves’ Survival Roadmap, which is a step-by-step training with eight modules that go into great detail into the SAVED thyroid framework. 

At the end of each module, there is an action step, so you can actually implement what you learned. As I said, a lot of people have gone through those action tasks. I do my best to try to engage every time someone goes through the action tasks.

Also, something I recently added was you will also get access to monthly hyperthyroid healing diet group Q&A calls with one of my nutritional health coaches. This is once a month. One of my coaches will answer your questions related to diet and lifestyle. I’ll also make an effort to appear. I can’t promise I will be on all the calls. It will be hosted by one of my nutritional health coaches. 

When you join the community, there are different levels based on engagement. Everyone starts out at level one. Everyone can access the training at level one. Once you join, you get immediate access to this. 

In order to participate in the monthly diet Q&A calls, you need level two access. Level two access is very easy to access. If you have a little bit of engagement, really, if you go through those action tasks through the training, you will get to that really quickly. Quite frankly, some people have gotten to it the same day, within an hour or two. Once they get in, they go through the training. If you happen to be joining this community, and there is a call coming up shortly, you could take advantage of it and get to level two really quickly.

The goal is to encourage engagement. That’s why I made that requirement for the monthly calls. There is some engagement with that. For the training, as soon as you join, you could access the training.

To join the community, visit SaveMyThyroid.com/HealGravesDisease. 

That’s it. I hope you enjoyed this episode, talking about the SAVED Thyroid Method. For even more information, if you want to go into this in greater detail, I highly recommend joining the community and going through the training. 

While you’re in there, you can engage with others, take advantage of the group Q&A calls. When I have challenges, they will take place in this group as well. 

Hope you enjoyed this episode. Of course, I look forward to catching you in the next episode.

***

Hopefully, you found this solo episode to be valuable. Solo episodes are challenging. I enjoy going solo, but I will say I probably enjoy speaking with people more, having conversations. Most people don’t have knowledge when it comes to hyperthyroidism/Graves’, which is fine. People that listen to this podcast don’t just have hyperthyroidism or Graves’. There are people with Hashimoto’s who listen to this. I really enjoy the conversations just because talking to yourself essentially isn’t always easy. Thanks for tuning into this episode and other solo episodes. 

Let’s talk about bugleweed versus L-carnitine. There was a recent study about L-carnitine and selenium. There really hasn’t been any updated studies with bugleweed similar to that. Even though I’ve personally had a lot of success with bugleweed and my patients over the years taking bugleweed. 

Again, can you take L-carnitine instead of bugleweed? The answer is yes. It’s up to you. Some people might do better with L-carnitine. I find most people do better with bugleweed, and that’s why I start people there. The studies are the studies. 

If you really want to start with L-carnitine or the L-carnitine and selenium combination. Most people, I will give selenium. There has not been any studies showing the combination of bugleweed and selenium. It would be interesting to see a study like that, especially comparing bugleweed and selenium to selenium and L-carnitine. 

I am not going to start recommending L-carnitine instead of bugleweed. Maybe I will recommend it more frequently along with bugleweed. We’ll see. 

I didn’t talk about nutrient deficiencies. Where do they fall in the SAVED Thyroid framework? Focusing on the gut. Obviously, trying to eat whole, healthy foods. I will talk about that next. Trying to get as much as you can through the diet. There is a time and place for supplementation. 

Why do you have nutrient deficiencies in the first place? That’s one reason. Maybe you’re not eating whole, healthy foods. You’re eating too many reactive foods, which is part of the SAVED framework. Trying to eliminate reactive foods and focus on whole, healthy foods. Healing the gut, so you don’t have those nutrient deficiencies. 

Stress and toxins could also use up more nutrients. Those were of course covered in the Method. 

What to eat when dealing with hyperthyroidism. I spoke about eliminating reactive foods, focusing on what not to eat than what to eat. That’s why I have the Hyperthyroid Healing Diet. 

Whenever I work with someone, we do talk about not just eliminating foods but obviously trying to focus on eating whole, healthy foods. If you’re following a Level 3/AIP diet, assuming you’re not a vegan or vegetarian, you’re probably eating things like beef, poultry, fish, vegetables, fruit, maybe some coconut products. It’s tough because you’re not eating eggs or nuts and seeds, which would be part of a level 2 or modified paleo diet. You’re not eating legumes, which is part of level 1. 

If you haven’t read my book The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet, I highly recommend it. It’s also on Audible in audio format. You can listen to this if you prefer. 

For that book, I think it’s a good idea to get that in print. For Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Graves’, my first book, you can listen to that. Ultimately, it’s up to you. It’s good to have an actual physical copy of that book. 

Electronic pollution. I don’t talk enough about this. I have had a few experts, including Lloyd Burrell, talk about electronic pollution. Definitely something that’s overlooked. I think we could all do a better job of minimizing exposure to EMFs. I am better now than I used to be. Still not perfect. I sometimes do coaching calls at night, so I’m getting exposed to blue light close to bedtime. Definitely not perfect. 

If anything, trying to bring awareness. The reason I have them under the hidden triggers category is most people aren’t thinking about it at all.

That’s all I wanted to talk about here. A little bit shorter than usual. Hopefully, you enjoyed listening to me discuss the SAVED Thyroid Method. 

As I mentioned toward the end, I do have a group, Healing Graves’ Naturally, where I have the free training, the Graves’ Survival Roadmap, where I go into even greater detail about this method. Definitely check that out. As of now, the group and training are free.

Thank you so much for listening. Look forward to catching you in the next episode.

This episode starts by discussing what are Graves’ Disease antibodies? I should mention that if anyone has Hashimoto’s who is listening to this, most of the information will also apply to you as well. When talking about the different types of antibodies, thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins (TSI) are TSH receptor antibodies (TRAB). These are the antibodies associated with Graves’. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

Let’s start by discussing what are Graves’ Disease antibodies? I should mention that if anyone has Hashimoto’s who is listening to this, most of the information will also apply to you as well. 

When talking about the different types of antibodies, thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins (TSI) are TSH receptor antibodies (TRAB). These are the antibodies associated with Graves’. 

It’s also important to mention that people who have Graves’ can also have antibodies for Hashimoto’s. Let’s discuss all the antibodies. 

I mentioned one of them, TSIs. When you do a test, you have a choice by the way. Usually, you will have a choice to do either TSI or TRAB. Some will order both tests. I usually just recommend TSI because TSI is more specific to Graves’. You can certainly look at both. 

In most cases, when you have an elevated TSI, you have elevated TRAB, but not always. The reason for this is there are two types of TRABs; I have spoken about this before. TSI is typically the one that I recommend testing for.

Now, thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPO) are the most common type of antibody. They are more closely associated with Hashimoto’s, but a lot of people with Graves’ will have them as well. The literature shows that anywhere from 60-80% of people with Graves’ will have elevated TPO antibodies, whereas around 90% of those with Hashimoto’s will have elevated TPO antibodies. 

There are thyroid globulin (TG) antibodies. They are more specific to Hashimoto’s. If you have elevated TSIs and elevated TGs, you have the antibodies for both Graves’ and Hashimoto’s. Many people have all three antibodies. When I say “many,” I mean 20-30%. It is common to have all three. Very common to have both TSIs and TPOs. 

When I dealt with Graves’, I only had TSI. You do see some people who just have TSI. 

What is the significance of having more than one antibody? You could have different triggers for different antibodies. We’ll be talking more about triggers during this episode. Let’s say if you have positive TSIs and positive TPOs, you might see the TSIs consistently decrease, whereas the TPOs maybe don’t decrease. That doesn’t mean that you haven’t found the trigger. 

Over time, antibodies can fluctuate, too. I’d love to say that antibodies always consistently decrease over time, but that’s not always the case. It can be very challenging to lower thyroid antibodies. That being said, let’s go ahead and talk about the five different things you can do to lower antibodies.

First, you want to incorporate the foundations of thyroid healing. What are the foundations? Diet, eating whole, healthy foods. Stress management. You’re not going to get rid of all your stressors, but you can do things to improve your perception of stress, to improve your stress handling. Getting sufficient sleep. Regular movement. These are the foundations of healing and overall wellness. It’s not just specific to thyroid healing. Diet and lifestyle essentially. 

Diet and lifestyle is a piece of the puzzle. I talk about this in my book The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet. I have a separate section that talks about going beyond this diet. Going beyond not just diet but diet and lifestyle because if all you do is clean up your diet, and even if you block out time for stress management and get sufficient sleep, many times, that won’t be enough to restore your health, to normalize those antibodies. 

But if you don’t incorporate these foundations, you won’t be able to restore your health. In other words, doing this is usually not enough, but it is an important piece of the puzzle. 

When people work with me one-on-one, it’s not uncommon for people to have already incorporated some of these. Some people have already read my book before coming to me. “I’ve read your book. I’ve made diet changes. I’ve followed an AIP or Level 3 diet for a few months and am not seeing the changes I’d like to see.” That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t helpful. It means you need to do more than just changing your diet and incorporating other lifestyle factors that I discuss in the book and briefly mentioned here. 

It is important. If you haven’t read my book, I definitely would recommend doing that. There are also episodes where I give the CliffsNotes version of The Hyperthyroid Healing Diet, talking for 20-30 minutes. If you prefer listening, it is also in audio format on Audible. Something to keep in mind. 

That’s one way to lower thyroid antibodies. When I talk about five different ways, keep in mind that with maybe an exception of one of these, you usually will have to incorporate multiple things. It’s not just doing one thing. There are five ways, but you usually have to combine a few different things. The foundations, you want to apply. 

The second way is also something everyone with Graves’ wants to do, which is to find and remove your Graves’ triggers. There’s what’s called the triad of autoimmunity: genetic predisposition, which we can’t change genetics. Exposure to one or more environmental triggers. We will get to the third component, which will be the third thing you need to do to lower and normalize thyroid antibodies.

Finding and removing your Graves’ triggers is important. I talk about four main categories of triggers: food, stress, toxins/toxicants, and infections. With the foundations, they cover diet/food and stress, but you need to do things to reduce your toxic burden. There is a lot we are exposed to with environmental toxins and toxicants. A toxin is something naturally occurring, like mycotoxins from mold. Microplastics or glyphosate are examples of toxicants. Those are manmade. 

Either one can be potentially a trigger. Not always direct triggers of autoimmunity. Some of them, like glyphosate, can disrupt the gut and play a role in the development of Graves’ and other autoimmune conditions. A lot of people still have mercury amalgams. There is methylmercury from fish, which can be a concern. Other heavy metals. 

Infections, like EBV, H-pylori, parasites, Yersinia enterocolitica, Lyme, bartonella. I mentioned mycotoxins like mold. There is a lot to consider. 

Getting back to food. I didn’t get specific here. Most people know gluten is one to avoid while healing. Arguably, it’s a good idea to avoid gluten permanently. At the very least, while healing. Typically, the common allergens are gluten, dairy, corn, soy. Other foods, especially if you’re following AIP/Level 3, like nightshades, grains. 

There is an older book from 2016, No Pain No Grain by Dr. Peter Osborne, which is really good, about numerous reasons why you want to avoid grains. Not just gluten grains but gluten-free grains as well. They can be harsh on the gut. A lot of gluten-free grains are moldy, so that’s another reason, too. 

Stress. I briefly spoke about it. It’s not just chronic stress. That is certainly a big factor. When I dealt with Graves’, many of you who have been listening to this for a while know it wasn’t just emotional stress that I dealt with, but overtraining, exercising too much. It can be a problem in some people. 

Trauma, like stored trauma, dysregulates your adrenals and nervous system. Your nervous system controls everything, including your immune system. That can be a factor as well. 

The second way is to find and remove your Graves’ triggers. The third way is healing your gut. That is the third component of the triad of autoimmunity. There is genetic predisposition, exposure to one or more environmental triggers, and an increase in intestinal permeability, which is the medical term for a leaky gut.

If you have an unhealthy gut, most of the immune system cells are located in the gastrointestinal tract. Also, that leaky gut is part of that triad of autoimmunity. You really do need to have a healthy gut in order to have a healthy thyroid and healthy immune system. Really difficult, if not impossible, to heal your thyroid and restore your health if you don’t have a healthy gut. 

When I say “healthy gut,” it doesn’t mean 100% perfect. I bring this up because someone asked me this. I had this conversation on someone else’s podcast. The truth is, in this day and age, probably nobody has a 100% healthy gut. Whenever I do a comprehensive stool panel such as a GI Map, there is always some imbalances. Even when we do a retest, it’s still not going to be perfect. 

If we do an initial test on someone, and there’s a lot going on. Someone follows a certain protocol based on the findings, and then we do a retest. It’s not like the retest will be perfect. It’s a constant battle because a lot of these toxins and toxicants will affect the gut, and we are exposed to them on a regular basis. Even if you are strictly avoiding gluten and doing a good job with a diet and other factors, without question, that will help with gut health. It won’t be perfect. You want it to be good enough. 

If you have obvious GI symptoms, stomach pain, acid reflux, bloating, gas, you ideally want those to resolve. You want to have regular bowel movements. I’m just saying from a testing perspective, it’s probably not going to be 100% perfect. If you have H-pylori, parasites, certainly you want to address those. A healthy gut is important to lower and normalize thyroid antibodies. 

The fourth way to lower and normalize thyroid antibodies is by taking supplements that reduce oxidative stress. Of course, you want to do as much as you can through food, but there are some supplements that can be helpful when it comes to oxidative stress. 

There are a lot of supplements that can be helpful in general. Vitamin D can be helpful. I’m not including it here. A Vitamin D deficiency for example could be a reason why someone’s antibodies remain high. I could have easily mentioned a sixth way is correcting deficiencies. Keep that in mind. 

Selenium, for example. You could have a selenium deficiency. Even without having a deficiency, you don’t want to take selenium in excess because selenium toxicity is an issue. The point is that selenium has been shown to decrease not just oxidative stress but thyroid antibodies. Other things like NAC and alpha lipoic acid can also decrease oxidative stress and thyroid antibodies. 

There is a lot of studies with selenium and thyroid autoimmunity. A recent study that I actually had a past podcast episode about shows that selenium, when combined with L-carnitine, can help with thyroid antibodies. I also spoke about how it could result in you taking less antithyroid medication, for those who take methimazole. 

Arguably, when it comes to the antibodies, it’s moreso the selenium that is responsible for that, when compared to L-carnitine. 

There are studies showing that alpha lipoic acid can help, and can help with conditions like thyroid eye disease, which involves a lot of oxidative stress. 

NAC is a precursor to glutathione. 

I’m not saying you have to take all three of these. I do recommend selenium to a lot of my patients. I also commonly recommend NAC and alpha lipoic acid. It depends. You could also take, instead of NAC, liposomal glutathione. There are different options. 

Taking supplements that reduce oxidative stress, when combined with these other things. If all you do is take selenium, it might lower antibodies. The study with selenium and L-carnitine, it doesn’t seem like they were doing anything else. 

If you’re not finding and removing your triggers, healing your gut, and addressing that triad of autoimmunity, or incorporating the foundations, in my opinion, just taking selenium or any of these supplements I just mentioned isn’t going to be a big game changer. It will temporarily lower thyroid antibodies perhaps. We want long-lasting changes. 

That brings us to the fifth way to lower and normalize thyroid antibodies. That is by taking low-dose naltrexone (LDN). Keep in mind, I am not recommending taking this. I am saying it has the ability—not in everybody, it is hit or miss—to modulate the immune system and normalize antibodies. 

The problem with LDN is that besides it not working in everybody, even if it does work, it’s not doing anything to address the cause of the problem. There are some people with Graves’ and other autoimmune conditions who take LDN, and that’s all they do. It will calm the immune system; it’s not addressing the cause. As long as it’s working, that’s fine. People are happy with that. 

That’s not a goal of mine, just to do that. If someone is taking LDN while addressing the cause of the problem, I think that’s okay. The only issue is it might be difficult to tell if someone’s health is improving based on other things we’re doing. If the LDN is suppressing thyroid antibodies and making them normal, how do we know that everything else we’re doing is working? 

Some will ask the same thing about taking bugleweed, for example, or antithyroid medication. How do I know the natural approach is working? Those are having minimal effects on antibodies. If someone is taking antithyroid medication or bugleweed or a higher dose of L-carnitine for antithyroid properties, you could still monitor the antibodies. If LDN normalizes antibodies, you can’t look at them. The only real way that you might find out if you are in true remission is by eventually stopping the LDN.

Those are the five different ways to lower thyroid antibodies. Let me summarize. 1) Incorporate the foundations of thyroid healing through diet, stress management, sleep, and regular movement. Regular movement is not too much movement. You don’t want to be sedentary. You do want to be careful when dealing with hyperthyroidism. If you have an elevated resting heart rate, you should do light walking. Resistance exercise is also good. They tend to lose muscle mass and bone density. Definitely listen to your body. 

2) Find and remove your Graves’ triggers. 3) Heal your gut. 4) Consider taking supplements that reduce oxidative stress, such as selenium, NAC, and alpha lipoic acid. 5) Not the way I typically recommend, but taking LDN can be effective.

If you want to learn even more about how to lower your Graves’ antibodies, you might be interested in my upcoming free Find Your Graves’ Disease Triggers Challenge. Just to let you know, it’s free. I had this previously for free. It’s free this time. In the future, I think it’s not going to be free. It will be low-cost but not completely free. If you’re interested, take advantage this time. 

This will be taking place in my free Healing Graves’ Naturally community. It’s on a platform called School. I used to do these challenges in Facebook Groups. The last time I did it was in School, and it worked really well. As of recording this, we have close to 400 people in the Healing Graves’ Naturally community. It’s an engaged community. By the time this episode comes out, the numbers will be higher.

To register for the free challenge, you can visit SaveMyThyroid.com/FindYourTriggers. This challenge is for you if you have Graves’, and you want to do everything you can to avoid radioactive iodine and thyroid surgery, even though your endocrinologist tells you that these two options along with antithyroid medication are the only options. 

It’s also for you if you’re sick and tired of dealing with Graves’ symptoms. Not everyone experiences the same symptoms. Some of the more common symptoms include increased resting heart rate, palpitations, tremors, anxiety, insomnia, weight loss. Not everybody experiences all of these. Thyroid eye disease is quite common. 

Also, if you understand that there is an underlying cause for your condition. Just about every endocrinologist will tell you that there is nothing you can do to reverse Graves’, and diet and lifestyle changes won’t make a difference. Finding and removing triggers, healing the gut, etc. Thousands of people have restored their health by finding and removing triggers. 

I have been working with people who have Graves’ since 2009. As of recording this, over 16 years now. Hard to believe. There are a lot of people with Graves’, but not as many as those who have Hashimoto’s. As I mentioned earlier, a good number of people with Graves’ also have antibodies for Hashimoto’s. 

Another reason to consider joining is you want to do everything you can to save your thyroid and regain your health. Many of you know I personally reversed my Graves’ condition, and I have been helping others accomplish the same since 2009. It’s not a quick and easy process, but it’s definitely possible to save your thyroid and feel great again.

As far as the way this challenge works, it’s a five-day challenge. Every day, I will go live and give a presentation. There will also be Q&As. 

There is a VIP upgrade option, which you don’t have to do. I will say the first time we did this challenge, we had about 750 people register, and we had 46 people upgrade to VIP, which is a small fee. The people who upgraded had a separate hour-long VIP session. An extra five hours of support. Not just Q&As. We did hot seats. They got a lot of value out of it. I highly recommend upgrading to VIP. 

Day 1, we will discuss the three biggest mistakes people with Graves’ make. Day 2, I will get into the four main categories of triggers. Not just listing them like I did here but talking more about them. Day 3, we will discuss how to detect your triggers on a budget. Trying to do as much as you can on your own. Day 4, detecting your Graves’ triggers through testing. I do recommend some functional medicine testing. Day 5, removing your Graves’ triggers. To register for this free challenge, visit SaveMyThyroid.com/FindYourTriggers. 

That’s all I wanted to discuss with this episode. A lot of people have struggles lowering their antibodies. Again, it’s not even easy when working with a practitioner. Arguably, it’s more difficult when doing it on your own, but even when working with me or someone else, it’s not like it’s a quick and easy process. 

Most people aren’t doing anything to find and remove their triggers. If they are just working with endocrinologists and following recommendations, the endocrinologist won’t do anything to find and remove your triggers. Check out this challenge. 

That’s it. I’ll wrap this episode up. Hope you found the information I presented to be valuable. Hope to see you in the upcoming Find Your Graves’ Disease Triggers challenge. I also look forward to catching you in the next episode. 

***

Hopefully, you enjoyed this episode. I get a lot of questions about thyroid antibodies. I realized I have a lot of episodes that focus on antibodies, including a six-part podcast series on lowering antibodies. If you want more information, this was late 2024 into early 2025. You might want to check out those episodes. 

This episode was more specific to Graves’ antibodies. The six-part series is related to all thyroid antibodies. Quite frankly, this conversation could also benefit people with other types of antibodies as well. 

When it comes to lowering thyroid antibodies, definitely challenging. I will say out of the three main antibodies, there is more than three, but the main ones are TSIs, TPOs, and TGs. Graves’ antibodies seem like, I don’t want to say they’re easy to normalize because it could take quite a while for them. I will say they’re easier. More fluctuations with the TPO and TGs. That’s not with everybody. Everybody is different. 

Regardless, it’s not going to take you three months or many times not even six months to normalize thyroid antibodies. I would say 6-12 months on average. Six months is on the lower side. Probably more like 9-12 months. I could even say 9-15 months. Some people go beyond that. 

Just want to find the triggers and remove them. Those are two separate things. I combine the two. Just because you find them doesn’t mean it will be easy to remove them. You do both of those, but you also have to heal the gut. It’s a process. That’s also why I have a lot of episodes on this. If it wasn’t such a challenge, it wouldn’t be as common a question as far as how to lower thyroid antibodies. 

I spoke about mainly TSIs. I mentioned how those are the main type of TRABs. There are actually two types. There is also thyroid binding inhibitory immunoglobulins. 

I have a separate episode. I think it’s when I did the Q&A episodes. There is not a number associated with those episodes. I did episodes twice a week for a while. I did a Q&A on Thursdays. I didn’t count those. As of recording this, there is over 400 episodes on the podcast, but I only number the main ones. If you look at the numbers, there is only 220-something. There is actually over 400 episodes because of the Q&As. Kind of like a mini episode where I spoke about the other type of TRAB. 

According to the study, even though the TSIs are more specific for Graves’, the other one, you would think inhibitory means you have hypothyroidism. Maybe more common for Hashimoto’s. You could also have those in Graves’ as well. 

Regardless of whether someone is hyper or hypo, let’s say someone is hyperthyroid, and they test the TRABs and TSIs. TSI is negative, but TRAB is positive. It’s probably that other antibody. Not all labs will allow you to test the other antibody. I wanted to mention this.

Dealing with fluctuating antibodies. I already spoke about this with TPOs and TGs fluctuating more than TSIs. TSIs fluctuate, too. I just had a consultation as of recording this today with someone whose TSI was gradually decreasing. All of a sudden, it increased. We can’t say it never does that. Now, we’re trying to figure it out. Her job has been really stressful. She admitted she hasn’t been strict with her diet. That could be a factor, too. There could be other things as well. 

With all the antibodies, you can see them fluctuate. Over time, you want to see the improvement. That’s why you don’t necessarily have to test them every month, but over time, you want to see them gradually decrease. Like I said, sometimes, it could be challenging to lower and normalize them. Another reason to work with an expert. Even when working with an expert, it’s not like it’s easy. It’s definitely more challenging to do it on your own.

Getting antioxidants through food compared to supplements. Can you just eat vegetables for antioxidants or Brazil nuts instead of taking selenium? I have spoken about Brazil nuts in the past. You’re not going to get enough. You don’t know how much selenium is in a single Brazil nut. It can be anywhere from 20mcg-80mcg. If you want to take 200mcg, you could eat 10 Brazil nuts or three Brazil nuts. There’s no way of knowing. 

I do recommend supplementation more while trying to restore one’s health. When someone is maintaining a state of wellness, I am fine with eating Brazil nuts and getting as many of the antioxidants through food rather than supplementation. When restoring your health, you want to do both. Brazil nuts, you might not eat if you’re following AIP. You also don’t want to take too much selenium. Do one or the other. 

As far as antioxidants, if you’re eating plant-based foods and not following a carnivore-type diet, eat plant-based foods. If you take some antioxidants like NAC or selenium, that’s fine. 

That’s all I’ll cover here. Once again, if you’re really interested in learning more about thyroid antibodies, you might want to check out that six-part podcast series that I had. You could just search “thyroid antibodies,” and you should see parts 1-6.

Anyway, thank you so much for listening to another episode. Hope you found this to be valuable. Look forward to catching you in the next episode.

Recently, I interviewed Julie Olson returns to talk through what’s really going on behind hair loss and the confusion around biotin. We get into why true biotin deficiency is rare, how high doses can interfere with other nutrients, and why it’s so important to step back and look at the bigger picture things like gut health, inflammation, toxin exposure, and hormone balance.  If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

I am excited to chat with a return guest. Julie Olson is a triple-certified, evidence-based nutrition expert. She specializes in female hair loss, gut health, and gluten issues. Julie is known to skillfully investigate, discover, and communicate root cause resolutions to naturally regrow hair and regain health. 

With more than 10 years’ experience collaborating with functional and integrative practitioners along with her training in functional medicine, Julie has transformed over 700 women’s health and hair. She creates personalized health and hair rebuilding programs for clients that are realistic and sustainable for long-lasting results. This process empowers clients to take control of their own health. Julie’s program restores women’s luscious locks naturally by getting to the root causes of their health and hair loss, so they look and feel their very best. Welcome back, Julie. 

Julie Olson:

Thanks, Eric. That’s a little bit of an older bio. I didn’t realize you had that one, but it’s all good. 

Dr. Eric: 

I did ask you. You said in the email when we scheduled this that I already had your bio. The good thing is it said more than 10 years’ experience. Whether you have 15 or 20, it still applies. 

Also, this just happened. You have an abstract that’s been published in Integrative Medicine: A Clinician’s Journal on biotin supplementation, which we will be talking about. 

Let’s jump into that topic. I don’t know if you’d say biotin is very controversial in thyroid health because most people probably don’t think it’s controversial. Most people think biotin is something we take when we’re losing hair. There are people who are aware that it can interfere with lab results, not just thyroid labs, which we’ll talk about. 

Your research explains that it is controversial. Biotin, in the case of a deficiency, you might want to take possibly. So many people are just randomly taking biotin. Many of these people arguably don’t have a deficiency or don’t know if they have one because they haven’t tested for biotin. I’ll let you take over. How did it become one of the main supplements for hair loss? 

Julie: 

It earns its reputation from early case reports showing dramatic regrowth in cases with severe biotin deficiency. People with rare biotin deficiency is rare. It’s rare in developed countries. National Institute of Health says it’s very rare among individuals in general because you get biotin in your food every day. You get enough. The RDA is 30 mcg. They’re selling 10,000mcg. 

Let me tell you who gets a biotin deficiency. It’s a very rare genetic disorder called biotinase deficiency. Long-term antibiotic use or long-term TP independence, which is IV feeding. Antiseizure meds cause that deficiency. Alcoholism or liver disease. IBD as well. 

Dr. Eric: 

Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis? 

Julie: 

Yes. You can see it’s few and far between when people have a deficiency. Taking too much causes a plethora of problems. Do you want me to go into that? 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah, let’s talk about what too much is. How much is too much? What problems can taking too much cause? 

Julie: 

Anything over 4,000mcg. Keep in mind, it is a B vitamin. People think, “I can just pee it out. It’s not fat soluble.” Taking too much does cause a toxic reaction. There are safety measures. It gets the body out of balance with nutrient interactions and deficiency. It interferes with the absorption of B5, B6, B12, alpha lipoic acid, and ferritin, if it’s iron. It can cause metabolic disruption, kidney and liver strain. It can alter glucose metabolism. It can exasperate hyperglycemia in diabetics. It can mask important regulatory mechanisms that can potentially cause stress on the kidney and liver function. 

Interesting that it’s marketed as a beauty vitamin. Early case studies. The beauty industry just ran with it, like they do with other things. Biotin does trigger skin problems in some people. High doses provoke acne, cystic acne even. I even had a client where that happened to herself and her cousin. Allergic reactions and rashes. It also disrupts the dysbiosis and skin microbiome at high doses. 

For instance, Costco is selling 10,000mcg of biotin. No one would know that’s 300x the daily requirement. 

It also interferes with over 200 lab tests, including labs for thyroid markers. Do you want me to run through some of those? 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah, let’s talk about the tests. You can run through them first. I also want to know how much biotin does it take to interfere with the results? If someone is taking a biotin supplement or a multivitamin with biotin, should they stop taking it a few days or a week before? Let’s talk about that, too. Whatever order you want. 

Julie: 

Sure. You want to stop 5-7 days before taking any labs. Not only thyroid labs, but it interferes with these other lab markers. Vitamin D, 25 hydroxy Vitamin D, estradiol (the E2 test), folate, progesterone, testosterone, thyroxine, T3, B12, insulin, anti-HAV IgM, cancer antigen, creatine kinase. This is on my website on a blog. 

Dr. Eric: 

We can add a link to this. 

Julie: 

FSH, ferritin, HCG, agglutinizing hormone, NT-proBNP, prolactin, prostate specific antigen (PSA), thyroglobulin (TG), troponin, which is a marker for cardiovascular. 

Dr. Eric: 

Probably should have just asked you which markers does it not interfere with. That may have been a quicker list. It interferes with a lot of labs and markers. You said to stop 5-7 days prior. Is that at any dose? If someone is taking a B complex that has 400mcg of biotin, for example, should they stop taking biotin for 5-7 days? 

Julie: 

I think to be safe. From all the literature I’ve gone through, that would be the safest way to get the best test result. 

Dr. Eric: 

Regardless of if they are taking higher doses separately versus lower amounts in a B complex or multivitamin, you would say to play it safe, to get it out of your system. I didn’t realize it could cause liver and kidney strain. 

Julie: 

Yeah. 

Dr. Eric: 

I would imagine that’s at really high doses, right? 

Julie: 

Yeah. I was surprised when I got to researching this. I know we talked about it years before I even researched it. Once I dove in, it was just alarming. That’s why I wanted to talk to you and your audience about it. Don’t waste your money. It does more harm than good, taking so much biotin. 

Dr. Eric: 

What would you say to someone who is taking biotin, and they swear it’s helped with their hair? Does that mean they were one of the rare ones who had a deficiency? Could there be another reason?  

Julie: 

Good question. Probably some of the precursors got into better balance. They grew some hair. Some of the other nutrients for hair, like amino acids, zinc, iron, those cofactors properly. It helps grow their hair. That’s why they see the baby hairs. 

Dr. Eric: 

I’ll be honest. I don’t test for biotin. Some of the tests that we both do have biotin markers. I know you do an organic acids test, which has metabolites for biotin. If it’s elevated, typically one has a biotin deficiency. Do you do DUTCH testing? 

Julie: 

Yes. I do NutrEval, which tests biotin. 

Dr. Eric: 

Are those your go-tos? Do you ever test for biotin in the blood? 

Julie: 

No, not in the blood normally. I use the blood test version and the urine version of the NutrEval. It will look at it both ways. Doing other labs to see where their inflammation is, where their deficiencies are, where their toxins are. 

I mentioned to you before, with your specialty, there is a lot of causes, but the five root cause categories I have put hair loss into are inflammatory, hormonal, gut, which includes nutrition, toxins, and stress. I make sure that we remove any of those, especially stress and toxins, before even going further and trying to repair their gut. First, getting out all the toxins and stressors. Sometimes, it’s not in their body; it’s in their environment. It takes a long time. Some people get frustrated. 

Dr. Eric: 

Definitely a work in progress with both stress and toxins. We are always dealing with stressors. We are always dealing with toxins and toxicants. You’re right.

You mentioned toxins. I always think about reducing toxic load, things like cosmetics and cleaning products. Some of these cosmetics, getting back to biotin. The shampoos, don’t they have biotin in them, too? Should someone look at their hair products and also- 

Julie: 

There’s not enough in shampoo.

Dr. Eric: 

To affect the labs? I just wanted to make sure. If they are taking it in other ways, it’s mainly orally that is a concern. Good to know. 

You mentioned some other testing in general, not just for biotin. When someone is dealing with hair loss, you take that root cause approach and look at all the different things you mentioned, starting with stress and toxins, but also inflammation, gut health, and hormones. Thyroid hormone imbalances can cause hair loss. Too much thyroid, too little thyroid hormone can cause it. 

Are there certain tests you do from a functional medicine perspective in everybody? Do you do a comprehensive stool test on everyone, an organic acids test on everyone? Does it depend on the person, their health history? The NutrEval, you also mentioned. I’d like to know what tests you do on everyone, or at least most of the clients you work with. 

Julie: 

Good question. I do have my favorites, which you just mentioned. It depends on the individual and their budget. 

Dr. Eric: 

If someone can only afford one functional medicine test? 

Julie: 

It would be a tossup between the GI Map and NutrEval, depending on how they present. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s what I wanted to hear. You have to dive into their health history and see. If they have a lot of gut issues, maybe the GI Map. They could show a lot on the NutrEval, too, because that looks at some dysbiosis markers and yeast. That’s why you have to look carefully at the health history and determine what testing. 

Do you do any SIBO testing? 

Julie: 

If they present, yeah. I’ll do it if they think they need it. 

Dr. Eric: 

Do you also do, if necessary, mycotoxin testing? Cool. We do a lot of the same tests. I’m like you, too. If money wasn’t an issue, let’s do all of them. Obviously, finances is still an issue. Even if it isn’t an issue, it’s like you can’t afford everything. In that case, I want to make sure to do the priority tests. If someone absolutely insists on doing more testing I recommend, that’s up to them. Usually, it’s more the opposite, where someone might only be able to afford one or two, and you have to pick and choose.

Are there any common findings you see with your hair loss patients with some of these tests, like the GI Map for example? Any of these functional medicine tests. 

Julie: 

I see a lot of the Streptococcus elevated. That is a potential pathogen. It’s a bacteria that can- 

Dr. Eric: 

Opportunistic.  

Julie: 

Yes. I see that in almost everyone I test. I see a fair amount of H-pylori. Of course, inflammation in the gut. Low elastase. If I do the zonulin marker, that’s often elevated. Beta glucuronidase. A lot of dysbiosis. Low Akkermansia. Is that what you’re finding? 

Dr. Eric: 

Streptococcus, I agree. Most of my patients, when they do a GI Map, usually that shows up. Akkermansia is pretty commonly lower or less than detectable limits. The pancreatic elastase. Beta glucuronidase, it depends. Definitely more than 50% show low pancreatic elastase. Probably low Akkermansia. Definitely the elevated Streptococcus. I would probably say less than 50% of my patient base has elevated Beta glucuronidase. I wouldn’t say it’s like most of the people I work with. Secretory IgA is one that is commonly low. Sometimes high, but many times, low. 

Julie: 

Oh okay. More times low with you? Okay. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah. Probably 80% of the time, it’s on the lower side. Sometimes- You see a lot of elevated secretory IgA? 

Julie: 

Yeah. I see low, too. I equate that to they live in a paper thin house. They have no walls. 

Dr. Eric: 

Exactly. The mucosa, yeah. H-pylori, that’s definitely common. The GI Map is different than other tests. Most other tests just say you’re positive or negative. That uses a quantitative PCR, so it puts a numerical value on it. I find most people at least have it. It’s not always elevated. Most of the time, it’s detectable. Sometimes, not detectable at all. 

Interesting test. I like the GI Effects from Genovva, too. I do the GI Map more frequently. 

Those are the main factors when looking at hair loss. I was going to ask if there was anything else, any other nutrient deficiencies tie into what we’re talking about. Gut health. Toxic burden using up more nutrients. 

Julie: 

Parasites. 

Dr. Eric: 

Exactly. We are talking about Elizabeth Yarnell. Shoutout to her. She was on the podcast talking about parasites in the past. That’s one thing with the GI Map. I’m glad you brought that up. You and I like GI Map. If we ask Elizabeth, she would be like, “No, why test for parasites? They’re not completely accurate,” which I agree. They’re not perfect. 

Julie: 

I agree. 

Dr. Eric: 

Her argument is you can have parasites elsewhere: in the brain, other areas of the body, not just in the gut. For our purpose, we are focusing on the gut here. 

I will say GI Map, I can’t say 90% of people I test for GI Map come out positive for parasites. When it’s negative, you can only go with the findings. If the person still has symptoms, maybe do further investigation. There are other companies like ParaWellness that focus more on parasites. 

It’s interesting how different practitioners test. Some would not do the GI Map at all or any other stool test. We have a similar approach. They’re not perfect, the testing. Guessing is not perfect either. Just saying, “Let’s assume everyone has H-pylori or parasites or elevated Beta glucuronidase,” we want to try to get as much information as we can from the tests. 

Everyone has a different approach. Different people have success taking different approaches. It’s not to criticize other approaches, but it’s nice to speak with someone who shares the same perspective when it comes to doing these tests. 

Julie: 

From my experience, for my first six years, I was a nutritionist for National Grocers, a national health food store with 250 stores nationwide. I couldn’t give labs. It’s so much easier for the client and the provider to say, “Look, you do have a gluten problem. Look, you do have parasites.” Instead of saying, “You have all the symptoms for it.” I get better compliance. “Look here. You do have dysbiosis. You do have H-pylori.” 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah, that’s an excellent point. I test adrenals also. I like adrenal testing. We can make the argument that most people have adrenal issues. Stress is a big problem. 

When I dealt with Graves’, and I have told this story a number of times on the podcast, but for those who haven’t heard this story, my adrenals were in the tank. Everything was low. Cortisol, DHEA, secretory IgA. I was very surprised, not because I didn’t think stress was an issue, but I thought I did a good job of managing stress. I convinced myself that I knew stress was a factor, but I was doing a good job of managing it. 

Back then, I did an adrenal saliva test. If I didn’t do that test, maybe I wouldn’t have recovered, just because I needed to see how bad my adrenals were to really take action and block out time for stress management. I took some supplements to support adrenals. Then I retested. That was also equally important in my case because everything was low. A few months later, I retested and saw the improvements. 

You’re right. It’s not to say you have to do every single test out there. If you don’t do any tests, then you could go by symptoms. Some people will get better that way maybe. If not, what direction are you going to go? 

I think it’s fair to say try to do everything you can from a diet and lifestyle perspective. You could give up gluten even without doing testing to see if you’re sensitive to gluten. Even if you’re not sensitive to gluten, you should give up gluten because it has other effects, like on permeability of the gut.

I agree with you. Seeing usually leads to better compliance. 

Julie: 

In the long run, they’re going to also be able to retest and see the improvements. That can be helpful, too. 

Dr. Eric: 

Exactly. With hair growth, what are realistic expectations? Someone is losing a lot of hair. You find a number of different factors. Maybe there is some hormone imbalances going on, but there are also some gut issues. It’s multifactorial, like hair loss. 

It’s different with men than women. Most of the people I work with are women. It could be distressing when they lose a lot of hair. What’s a realistic expectation as far as stopping hair loss and growing hair back? I know every case is different. You can’t say in every situation, it will be six months. But it takes time. It’s not three weeks, and their hair loss will stop and grow back.

Julie: 

Yeah. I did have a client who grew her hair back in three months. You could really see it. Some other women, more have more. The diffusive thinning and maybe some bald spots where you can hide it and so forth. 

The usual time is minimum of six months. Maybe a year or even more. Some women get really tied up because if you’re losing more than 100-150 hairs a day, day after day, month after month, as I was, and then it got so bad you could see my scalp as clear as day. This was when I was 38 years old. I’m 62 now. 

A lot of women get stressed just with losing very little. They send me pictures. You can’t stress about that. That’s normal. My hairdresser said it’s normal to lose that amount every day, and it is. It is normal to lose hair. You do lose hair every single day. 

When women have longer hair, it looks like more. You also lose hair with the seasons changing. I guess I’m answering your question the long way, but those are the time frames. 

Dr. Eric: 

It could take a year or longer to fully grow it back? The hope is that women will start seeing results well before then. Not that it would take a year to see the changes that are taking place, but to really get back to where they once were, where their hair once was. 

I’m sure you have this question from people working with you. “I came across this product.” An example is Nutrafol or another hair loss supplement. Forget about the biotin. There are other things out there. I forget if Nutrafol has biotin. I know it has other things. Regardless, when someone brings up Nutrafol or another hair loss supplement, and they ask if they should give this a try to see if it will help assist in hair growth. 

Julie: 

Yeah, sure, if you want to try it. It’s not the magic bullet. If it was the magic bullet, everyone would take a hair supplement, and their hair would grow. I turn around every day, and someone else has a new hair supplement. 

I won’t call out Nutrafol because I used to partner with them. They got bought out by Unilever. That’s why you see ads everywhere. They are produced and created in China. They have this proprietary blend. I was not comfortable with it. I’m sure it can do some good. It’s really expensive. 

If you don’t get to the root cause of the hair loss, and you start piling on- That’s what women do. That’s what I did. You pile on supplements. You use products and do procedures. If your gut is a mess, or if you have toxins, you won’t absorb those supplements anyway. Maybe a little, so they will help a little bit. It’s like picking a scab and not letting it heal. If we just start layering on a bunch of supplements before you clear out the noise, the stressors, the toxins. 

What I have come up with, and I want to ask you, are mercury fillings. I have a gal I just started working with, and she had a hair transplant. It only works for a couple years. Only 49% of hair transplants work long-term. 

Anyway, she has mercury fillings. I prefer to get those removed before you start detoxing. Alpha lipoic acid, it will make it worse. Some of the detox nutrients make you sicker if you start detoxing someone with those mercury fillings. What’s your take on that? 

Dr. Eric: 

In a perfect world, I agree. If you have mercury amalgams, you would want to get those out asap by a biological dentist or someone who is taking proper precautions, not your general dentist, who probably won’t take proper precautions. I can’t say all my patients do that, or even most. 

I say this. Mercury definitely can be a trigger for autoimmunity. It could even affect permeability of the gut, which I didn’t realize until a few years ago doing some research. I knew it was bad. So many things affect the gut microbiome. Didn’t know that was one that affects the intestinal barrier. We know mercury is not good. 

I will say that a lot of people I work with have restored their health, even with the mercury amalgams. It’s not like it’s always preventing them from restoring their health. 

But I only had one mercury amalgam, and I got it removed. I also had a root canal, which I got extracted and replaced it with a ceramic implant. Root canals are more controversial. We know for sure mercury is a toxin. 

We could have another discussion on root canals. With mercury, I would agree. For an optimal health perspective, yes, you need to remove it. Even in some cases, there will be some people who don’t remove mercury amalgams. They are hitting that roadblock, where their antibodies aren’t normalizing, and they will remove mercury amalgams. That will be the missing piece of the puzzle. 

I haven’t seen that with root canals. I have had patients remove root canals in an attempt to lower antibodies. So far, I haven’t seen that. It’s a small sample size. I can’t say I’ve had hundreds of patients remove their root canals. Mercury, I have seen have that effect. 

I have also seen people normalize antibodies even when keeping mercury amalgams. It doesn’t mean they weren’t doing any harm. It just means it wasn’t creating an immune response, not to the extent where it was affecting those antibodies.

From a detox standpoint, you do want to be careful. If you’re detoxifying, the first thing you need to try to do is minimize your exposure to those environmental toxins. If you have mercury amalgams already, you are constantly being exposed to mercury. In a perfect world, you would want to remove them. 

Not everybody is in a situation where they’re ready to do that, financially, because it is more expensive. If someone has eight mercury amalgams, and they will get them done by a biological dentist, it will cause thousands of dollars to get it done. They won’t want to do all eight at the same time. This is an extreme example. 

If someone has two mercury amalgams, that’s more reasonable. We can make the argument that they should ideally remove the mercury amalgams before improving their health. 

In the case of a Graves’ patient, they might get into remission without removing them. In your case, with someone with hair loss, they might be able to stop hair loss, grow it back, even if they keep their mercury amalgams. If they don’t, time wasted and money spent when they could have done it in the first place. 

I do agree with you. Not everybody ends up removing them. I would like to think even those who don’t remove them and get good results will still consider removing them in the future.  

Julie: 

Agreed. Maybe they’re not having problems with the mercury now. According to the research, it’s just a matter of time. You might as well do it now. 

Dr. Eric: 

Agreed. In my situation, I only had one, which I thought I had more. That’s the thing. I had multiple fillings when I was younger. For whatever reason, and I did go to multiple dentists. Apparently, only one of them- I have been going to biological dentists for a number of years. This is my second or third biological dentist. Like I said, I thought I had multiple years ago. I was told I just had one. No complaints. I was glad I had just one. 

Like I said, I had a root canal as well. That was more controversial. Wasn’t an easy decision honestly. I am not a big fan of root canals. The location. I just decided to get the root canal removed. Got the implant done. 

Honestly, the implant, at least in my situation, I don’t want to say it was easy peasy. When I got the tooth extracted, I waited almost a year before getting that implant. I wasn’t fearful of the implant. I had extractions. I had a root canal done. I’ve had different dental procedures. I heard some nightmare situations with implants. After I got it, I wish I would have done it sooner. Sorry to go off. 

Julie: 

It’s interesting. I had eight. 

Dr. Eric: 

Mercury amalgams or root canals? 

Julie: 

Mercury amalgams. 

Dr. Eric: 

I assume you have none now. 

Julie: 

None now. I found a biological dentist here in Denver who used insurance. I got lucky. 

I had some decavitations done by Dr. Nunnally in Marble Falls, TX. That’s all he does all day. Takes out mercury and decavitations. People come to him from all over the world. I refer my clients to him. They have a whole system that is not expensive. It’s three times less than some of the biological dentists here in Denver. That’s all they do. 

Dr. Eric: 

Sounds like a no-brainer. Since you’re saving money, get a ticket to TX if you don’t live there already. Maybe stay a night. I imagine for that mercury removal, you could probably go home same day if you really wanted to. 

Julie: 

No, you have to stay the night. You have a special hotel rate. They serve really clean gluten-free, dairy-free soup. 

I have sent some women to him. It’s still a hard sell. Women don’t understand what their mercury has to do with their hair loss. 

Dr. Eric: 

How about gluten? How firm are you when it comes to people avoiding gluten? “You absolutely must avoid gluten if you work with me?” 

Julie: 

I test them on it. I can say you need to get off gluten until you’re blue in the face. When I worked as a nutritionist for Natural Grocers, I gave gluten-free testing fairs. Still some people would get off of it for a while. 

Dr. Eric: 

What do you test for? 

Julie: 

It didn’t matter. I do food sensitivity testing for it. When I can see it, and they can see it, they have a sensitivity. Some people are even Celiac and don’t know it because there’s silent Celiac. I test for it. 

Dr. Eric: 

You’re not just testing for gluten? You’re doing a food sensitivity panel that looks at gluten? 

Julie: 

Yeah. 

Dr. Eric: 

Maybe it’s rare, but what do you say if someone comes back negative for gluten? 

Julie: 

I still tell them that I’m the wrong person to talk to because I don’t think anybody should be eating gluten. I’m not as adamant about it if they test negative. 

Dr. Eric: 

This is where we differ. I can’t say I do food sensitivity testing on most people. The saliva test I recommend for adrenals. I recommend the Adrenal Stress Index from Diagnostics, and they look at gliadin. Gliadin is a gluten marker. Some people test positive. I can’t say that most people have an elevated gliadin. I don’t do the saliva test for gliadin. It just happens to be on there. If they test positive, obviously, I point that out and tell them to avoid gluten because they’re reacting. 

Even if they’re negative, it’s not just about the sensitivity. It is also how it affects their gut. There is proof that it increases gut permeability, causes a leaky gut. If you do food sensitivity testing, and you test positive for gluten, that’s strong evidence that you want to avoid it long-term. Even if it’s negative, maybe you’re not reacting to it, but it doesn’t mean it’s not hurting you in other ways. Avoid it. 

Julie: 

They test for that, the anti-gliadin on the GI Map. 

Dr. Eric: 

True. I don’t know how accurate that is. Most people who do that test test negative. 

What I was going to say, and this is important. A lot of people, when they work with me, they are already gluten-free. It will be negative if they have been avoiding gluten for a few months. It’s negative because they aren’t producing the antibodies for gluten. 

If someone does a GI Map or food sensitivity testing- you do the IgG, right? You spoke about it before. Regardless, it doesn’t matter which test it is. If they have been gluten-free for three months or longer, we don’t know if they will react to gluten. Even if they have Celiac, if you avoid gluten for three months or longer, you won’t produce the antibodies. 

I pretty much recommend everybody avoid gluten. Doesn’t mean that 100% will do that. Some people will do it 95%. You have to tell them even some small amounts of gluten, even once a week, it might be enough not to heal the gut. 

It’s one thing if someone has a healthy gut already. Maybe they can withstand gluten every now and then. If someone is trying to heal their gut, and they are eating gluten once or twice a week, it might be enough to prevent their gut from healing. 

Julie: 

The fingernail amount of gluten creates the same damage, same result, reaction. I certified through Dr. Tom O’Brien’s Gluten Free Practitioner program. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yep. 

Julie: 

I have all these case studies. He said a fraction of a fingernail of gluten causes the same response. It’s all or nothing with gluten, whereas with other food sensitivities, not so much. Unfortunately. 

Dr. Eric: 

Agreed. This has been a great conversation. Before we wrap up, anything else you want to say? Any last words for those who have been struggling with hair loss for a while? Tried some things on their own. Maybe worked with a practitioner. What would be some next steps to take? 

Julie: 

Don’t fall for marketing myths. Test, don’t guess. Always look for the root cause instead of reaching for the next supplement. Your hair is speaking to you. Your hair is not the problem. Listen to it. Be grateful that it’s giving you some symptoms and clues that you need to dig deeper. 

Dr. Eric: 

Wonderful. Julie, where can people find out more about you? 

Julie: 

They can go to my website, FortitudeFunctionalNutrition.com. Search my name, JulieOlson.com, and it goes there, too. My social media handles are JulieOlsonFN, for Functional Nutritionist. 

Dr. Eric: 

Awesome. Thanks so much. This was really great. We spoke a lot about biotin initially and hair loss. We spoke about other things. Everything was tied into hair loss. Testing, mercury amalgams, all of this is important. If you have increased toxic burden, unhealthy gut, nutrient deficiencies, which can be related to the things we just mentioned, all this ties in together. 

Julie: 

If I could add. I have an updated quiz on my website. It looks for those five root cause categories. The quiz scores you. Is your highest burden hormonal? Is it inflammatory? Is it toxins? If the y go to my website, they can take that free quiz. 

Dr. Eric: 

Wonderful. Another reason to visit Julie’s website. Julie, this was great. Glad to have you back. I’m sure we’ll have you back again in the future. 

Julie: 

Thank you, Eric. It’s always great talking to you. I appreciate you being here. Thanks so much. 

Dr. Eric: 

Agreed. Take care. 

Julie: 

You, too.

***

Dr. Eric: 

Great having Julie back on the podcast, talking a little bit more about biotin. She mentioned how you want to stop biotin before all blood tests. Not that it can affect every single blood marker, but she named a lot of different blood markers. Not just doing a thyroid test.

She said wait at least 5-7 days no matter what form and dosage, even if you are taking it as part of a B complex or multivitamin. If you’re taking a low dose, I don’t know if you have to wait a full week. Some sources say 3-5 days for a lower dose. Maybe to play it safe, five days.

Also spoke about biotin’s effects on the liver and kidney. High dose biotin might put stress on the liver and kidneys, which I didn’t know. Most of the B vitamins are safe. B6, you want to be careful about high doses. Biotin, I didn’t know. 

We also had a conversation about removing mercury amalgams. I’m not sure if she recommends for everyone to remove them. I think it’s a good idea. Usually, I bring it up. I just learned over the years that most people aren’t, unless I say you absolutely have to remove them to get into remission. I haven’t found that to be the case. 

From an optimal health perspective, you want to remove all your mercury amalgams. I only had one, and I thought I had more but was told by biological dentists I just had one. Got that removed. If I had more, I would have gotten the other ones removed. 

I know some people are not in a financial position to do that. Like I said, if it was absolutely necessary for people with Graves’ and Hashimoto’s to get into remission, I would recommend it. In some cases, people might not choose to. Their thyroid antibodies aren’t normalizing, so we find that it is related to the mercury. 

When detoxifying, which she also brought up, you want to be careful. You could still detox with amalgams, but there is controversy when using agents that potentially could chelate not just synthetic chelators like DMSA or DMPS or maybe alpha lipoic acid potentially. In a perfect world, you would want to remove amalgams before detoxing. 

Of course, not everybody is in a position to remove those amalgams. If you have them, eventually you do remove them hopefully, but you want to make sure you go to a biological dentist or someone who takes proper precautions. To search for one, visit IAOMT.org, which is the International Academy of Oral and Medicine Toxicology. 

Testing versus guessing. We both like to do functional medicine testing. I brought up Elizabeth Yarnell. We both know her. Both are in Colorado, so they know each other well. Elizabeth has been on the podcast a few times.

One thing I didn’t mention is Elizabeth does like MRT. It’s not like she likes no testing. She is a big proponent of MRT, which is a food sensitivity test. 

When it comes to parasites, she doesn’t like to do stool testing because they are not 100% accurate. She is also not just trying to treat parasites in the gut but in other areas of the body. 

Testing for gluten. She uses food sensitivity testing. She doesn’t use MRT. I remember her telling me in the past she uses an IgG test to determine if someone has other food sensitivities. She uses it for gluten, too. 

Not a big fan of food sensitivity tests, which you know if you listen regularly. I usually recommend an elimination diet. 

If someone is hitting a roadblock, it’s something I’ll consider. If someone insists on doing food sensitivity testing, sure. But it’s not something I recommend for most people.

After our conversation, I did ask her about hair dyes. I didn’t want to put her on the spot because I didn’t know if she dyed her hair, which I told her. I assume if she did, she would use something natural. I’m not a hair dye expert or hair coloring expert. 

She said she uses a washout dye, which has very little peroxide. It sounds like she is using a little bit of hair dye, minimally. 

I asked about henna because that is more of a natural alternative. She used it, and it dried out her hair. It sounds like there is no great alternatives for hair dyes, which I was trying to figure out. She said herself she uses a washout dye. She uses little peroxide. It sounds like it’s not a perfect solution. There probably isn’t a perfect solution out there. 

Anyway, that’s all I wanted to cover here. Always great to catch up with Julie and talk about hair loss. If you’re experiencing hair loss, check out her website and resources. 

Hope you found our conversation to be valuable. Appreciate you listening. Of course, look forward to catching you in the next episode. 

Recently, I interviewed Dr. Ben Weitz, who fractured his femur and was told it might never heal, he turned to the same principles he’s used with patients for decades: ‘root cause, functional medicine’ thinking. In this conversation, he shares how he designed a bone-healing protocol that combined targeted nutrition, vitamin K2 and vitamin D optimization, growth factors, and the right kind of exercise stimulus.  If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

Welcome back to the podcast! 

Dr. Ben Weitz: 

Thank you so much, Eric. I wanted to talk about my health crisis. I think it’s interesting that a lot of people in the functional medicine world, including yourself, who got into functional medicine, partially because you had your own health crisis in your case with hyperthyroidism. I have spoken to a lot of other functional medicine practitioners who had stories about their health crisis. I’ve gone to discussions about how to be a good speaker and how to tell your story. I always felt like I didn’t have that health crisis. I was always generally somewhat healthy. Never necessarily ate healthy, did the wrong things, but never had a health crisis. 

Now, I’ve had my health crisis. On Halloween 2023, I was in my home with socks on on a wood floor. I was handing out Halloween candy. I had a bowl of Halloween candy in my right hand. My dog who is very energetic, I had his leash around my left arm. My dog pulled, my leg slid, I went down on my hip, and I fractured my femur. It was an emergency situation. I was taken to the ER. The next day, I had surgery to repair my proximal femur. They put two steel rods inside. It was a whole thing.

I started doing rehab. It’s my nature to be very much into exercise. I’m very aggressive with rehab. Initially, they talked me into going into this rehab place that they said was very aggressive. I was going to get 3-4 sessions a day. Of course, it didn’t quite work out that way. I didn’t stay in there too long. I think I was in there for four days. I decided to go home and do my own rehab. 

About a week after the hospital, I was in Gold’s Gym with my walker. I had a PT coming to the house. I started doing even more research on bone health. What I knew already, even though I had done several episodes about osteoporosis and had looked into medications, supplements, diet, lifestyle, and exercise factors related to bone density, I now had a renewed interest in making sure my femur could heal. 

I started taking high-dose Vitamin K2, the MK4 version. I got my Vitamin D levels up to the 60-80 level. I added boron, calcium magnesium. I even did some strong DM citrate. I was taking collagen, glucosamine. I was making sure I was eating foods that would be beneficial for bone. I addressed my microbiome with probiotics and prebiotics and fermented foods. 

Unfortunately, it wasn’t healing the way it was supposed to. I kept going in for an X-ray every month. There was a gap. 

What was supposed to happen is after the surgery, the two parts of the bone are supposed to be flush against each other. In my case, after the surgery, there was a gap. It was difficult for the body to bridge that gap with new bone. 

At some point, after about three months, I got a CAT scan. It showed that there was some fibrous healing, but there was still no bone. There was this gap where the bone was just not forming. 

After four months, it was termed a non-union, meaning that it was not going to heal statistically. I sought advice from several orthopedic surgeons, both of whom recommended that I get revision surgery. That means the two steel rods I have right now in my femur crisscross and are inside the femur. I can’t really feel them. It was a good surgery, but they recommended they pull those rods out, which would not be an easy thing. The bone I’m sure is already formed around them. They probably have to chisel them out. After that, I would have a hole in my femur. Unlike a construction project, they can’t fill it in with cement. 

Then they recommended this revision procedure, where I have a rod down the outside of my femur and screws all the way down. I decided there was no way I was going to do that. I had this one prominent orthopedic surgeon say, “You need to do this revision surgery.” I said, “I’m not doing it. I have made some improvements. There is some fibrous tissue that’s been forming.”

 The question is, is fibrous tissue a precursor for bone to form? Or is it potentially in the way? I talked to several doctors about that. A friend of mine is the head of physical therapy at USC, and he said it’s a good thing I had fibrous tissue. The collagen is the basis for bone formation. The body is trying to bridge the gap with fibrous tissue, so it can turn it into bone. 

Some of the other doctors said when you have a non-union, the fibrous tissue is in the way, so we have to scrape it out and shove the bones together again. 

I decided to come up with a plan to get my femur to heal without getting another surgery. Besides the healthy diet, supplements, and rehab, I decided to get a prescription for a drug called Forteo. Forteo is one of the few drugs for osteoporosis that stimulates new bone formation. In other words, it stimulates osteoblasts.

For those who are not familiar with bone physiology, we have two main types of bone cells. We have osteoblastic cells that build new bone, and we have osteoclast cells that break down bone. There is a constant balance between building up and breaking down. 

You might ask yourself, “Why would the body break down bone?” It’s kind of like the cleanup crew. Normal activity, as you go through your life, especially if you exercise or do physical things, you break down your muscles. Working out is not an anabolic process; it’s actually a breakdown process. Then the body rebuilds it stronger. 

Same thing happens with bone. You go through a normal day of activity, and you’re actually breaking down a certain amount of bone. Then you need the osteoclasts to come in and clean up that junky bone, so the osteoblasts can lay down new bone. This process occurs throughout your life. 

We used to have this concept that all the bone formation occurs by age 20 or 30 or something like that. After that, you just lose bone. We had this same concept about brain cells. You can have all the brain cells you are going to have by a certain age. After that, you just lose brain cells. 

We have learned that’s not true. The body continues to have this balance between growth and breakdown throughout your life. It’s just that when you’re younger, the balance is tipped toward growth. When you get older, it tends to tip toward breakdown. 

But both of those processes continue throughout your life. In order to tip the process toward more osteoblasts, more bone buildup, I started taking daily injections of this medication called Forteo. Forteo is one of the few anabolic bone drugs that actually stimulates the osteoblasts.

The other drug that is on the market that is even more commonly used than Forteo is called Evenity. Most of the people who have osteoporosis take drugs that block bone breakdown. They block the osteoclasts. 

The most common category of drugs are drugs called bisphosphonates. Phosphomax. There is a whole series of those. These block the bone breakdown. You end up with more bone. 

The problem is without the cleanup crew, you’re not getting rid of the junky bone. That is why these drugs have been somewhat disappointing in terms of helping to prevent fractures, which is the main thing people are concerned about with loss of bone density or osteopenia or osteoporosis, which is the more severe form. You end up having less bone density. Because of less bone density, you have a higher risk of fracture. 

Most people are using these bisphosphonates. Unfortunately, that’s why you’re seeing some unusual side effects in some cases, where people get bone that is weaker, so there is actually spiral fractures of the femur, osteonecrosis of the jaw, and some other side effects that can occur. You’re blocking the osteoclast activity. 

Dr. Eric: 

You just took the Forteo, and you didn’t take any of the bisphosphonates, like Phosphomax? 

Dr. Ben: 

No. What I did was also used measurements to see what was going on. As you know, in functional medicine, we often do testing to see exactly what’s going on, like with thyroid. We want to know the whole picture. We want to see exactly what’s going on. 

The medical profession generally just gets the minimal amount of testing necessary. “Here’s your medication. See ya.” Nobody is monitoring. Is it doing what it’s supposed to do? 

Ideally, if you’re working with a patient with bone issues, osteoporosis, a failed fracture that is not healing, you would want to know A) What is the level of bone growth? B) What is the level of bone breakdown? These can be measured through blood tests. Probably the best test for bone breakdown is CTX, and the best blood test for bone building is called P1NP. It’s useful to do both of those to see what’s going on. 

When you use a drug like Forteo, one of the things that can happen is it increases the bone building. When you stop, you can get this big increase in bone breakdown. I made sure I monitored mine. If it looked like my osteoclast activity was ramping up, I would have considered following the Forteo with a bisphosphonate or Prolia. I didn’t see that big of a ramp-up, so I didn’t do that. That’s a scientific way of figuring out exactly what’s going on.

In addition to taking Forteo—I took daily injections for five months—I also got Human Growth Hormone. The use of it is controversial. The surgeon who prescribed the Forteo, after I showed him some studies that HGH was effective for non-union, he wasn’t willing to prescribe it. I felt like I needed it to put my body into anabolic, so it could ramp up the healing. I took a modest dosage. I did two IUs, five days a week, for five months as well. 

I also used a bone stimulator that works through ultrasound. I put it directly on my hip in the area of the fracture. I did it for 20 minutes, twice a day.

I did those three things plus the supplements plus the rehab plus the healthy eating. After five months, my femur healed, and the gap was closed. After a nine-month ordeal, and now I am another year out after that, my femur, my hip are 100%. I have no pain, no limitations. I have gotten my strength back. I continue to make sure I exercise in a way that will increase bone density or at least maintain as much bone density as possible.

Dr. Eric: 

Squats and deadlifts? 

Dr. Ben: 

Exactly. Squats and deadlifts. I also do some ballistic activity. There is a physical therapist from Australia whose name is Dr. Belinda Beck. She has published the only studies that have shown an increase in bone density with exercise. Her studies are the LIFTMOR trials. Part of her program involves that you need to jump in the air and land and have that ballistic loading on the femur. 

Obviously, you have to be careful. You have to start out very slowly. You can possibly risk a fracture, but that ballistic loading has been shown to be very beneficial for stimulating new bone. 

I now get up on a 24-inch platform and jump down. In her study, she has people jump onto a pullup bar, pull themselves up, and then drop down. 

You can start out by doing hill drops and jump off the ground. Going in the air and landing, that ballistic loading of the bone has been shown to be very beneficial for stimulating bone formation, bone strength. There is actually something called bone strength in addition to bone density. 

Dr. Eric: 

Bone strength versus bone density. 

Dr. Ben: 

The best way to measure bone density is with a bone densitometer test. It’s basically some X-rays of your spine and hip and sometimes your wrist. This is a way to measure the bone density. 

There is something called the T score, which measures your bone density compared to a healthy 30-year-old. There is your Z score, which measures your bone density as compared to someone your age. If the lab also has additional software that will measure trabecular bone score, TBS, you want to ask the lab and your doctor who prescribes the bone density test to include the TBS. 

When you have a bone, you have the cortical bone. Inside, you have the trabeculi, which are these crisscross hatches. These are really important because the TBS is a measurement of bone strength, the bone’s ability to withstand stress. TBS is even more directly correlated with fracture risk. You want to have good bone density, but you also want to have good bone flexibility or TBS. That’s something that’s important to monitor. That allows the bone to withstand loading and different kinds of stresses. 

Dr. Eric: 

Can you have low bone density but a good TBS? Do they go hand in hand, where typically if one is low, the other will be low? 

Dr. Ben: 

Yes, you can have a low bone density with a somewhat better TBS. That means you’re less at risk for fracture. 

Let me explain why some patients who have very low bone density on their T score. The way the T score goes is if you have up to -1, that is considered osteopenia. If you’re -2.5 or more, that’s called osteoporosis. 

If you have someone with a T score of -4, which would be a significant amount of osteoporosis, but maybe they don’t have a fracture because they have better TBS. Unfortunately, it’s usually not measured. You have to make sure the lab has this software. They don’t actually have to do another test. They just do an analysis. 

By the way, if you’re getting your bone density score, or you’re a doctor or a practitioner who is taking a look at a patient’s bone density, ask for the complete print-out of the bone densitometer results, not just the results. 

What will happen is you will get this sheet that will just give you the T score and the Z score, or maybe just the T score and something about a fracture risk. You really want the full print-out because unfortunately, patients aren’t always positioned the exact right way. They don’t necessarily always collimate it exactly the right way. 

If a patient has scoliosis, if they have increased or decreased curvature in their spine, if their hips aren’t positioned the proper way, it can change their bone density. If they have significant osteoarthritis, it can look abnormal because you have these spurs. If they have scoliosis, it might look like they have less bone because you can’t see it head-on, as there is a curvature in their spine. Those things need to be taken into consideration, and they’re often not. 

Dr. Eric: 

How would you know? I didn’t know this honestly, as far as getting the complete print-out. It sounds like the complete print-out talks about the positioning of the person. How would you know if they’re not properly-? Is it a matter of them not being properly positioned? Or if they are properly positioned, but they have something like scoliosis or osteoporosis, it could lead to false results? 

Dr. Ben: 

Absolutely. When it comes to the positioning, you have to ask the patient, were their feet put against something that puts their hips slightly internally rotated? Was their back flat? When you get the print-out, it will have a diagram, and it will show which part of the hip and also which part of the spine. Usually, it’s enough where you can see if they have significant osteoarthritis or scoliosis. You can also see if you need to get a separate lumbar spine X-ray and look at that. 

If they have osteoarthritis, then they’re more likely to have spur formation that will make it look like they have extra bone. If they have osteoporosis, typically, it may look like they have less bone. 

Dr. Eric: 

Okay. Osteoarthritis might have spur formation, which looks like there is excess bone, more bone formation. 

Dr. Ben: 

Yep. 

Dr. Eric: 

Even if someone has osteoporosis, but they also have osteoarthritis, that might actually increase the- If their T score is -3.5, it might actually look better than it is if they have osteoarthritis. 

Dr. Ben: 

Exactly. We know there is a significant percentage of people who have osteoarthritis. Unfortunately, they don’t always position the collimator properly. It’s really important that they do the exact same part of the lumbar spine and the exact same part of the hip. Sometimes, they do both hips to compare. 

Dr. Eric: 

I have a question. Did you get a DEXA scan prior to- 

Dr. Ben: 

No, I didn’t. Unfortunately, men typically are not asked to get a DEXA scan. It’s just assumed that there is a low likelihood of men having osteoporosis. Unfortunately, there is probably a much higher rate of low bone density in men that we don’t know about, simply because we don’t test. 

So many other things are like this. I’m sure you know from being in functional medicine and doing the additional testing that is not often done, you find out all this stuff that you wouldn’t have ever known. 

Dr. Eric: 

I know from my personal experience, you had one of the bone experts on your podcast, and I was listening to him. I got a DEXA. I showed up with low bone density, which was surprising. Looking at my history of hyperthyroidism and also not getting enough calcium, I was in denial. “Oh, I’m getting enough through plant-based foods.” I wasn’t keeping track of how much calcium. 

With the history of hyperthyroidism, they should have given me a bone density scan. They didn’t. I asked. I’m getting ready to turn 55. This was in 2024. I’m the one who had to ask, “I have a history of hyperthyroidism. Never got a bone density scan. Could I get one?” I rarely go to a primary care doctor, but my wife talked me into going to one for a check-up. I’ll go with her. Teachers’ insurance. I asked. Surprisingly, he ordered one. 

Sure enough, I didn’t know at that point about the TBS. Honestly, I didn’t ask. I didn’t get a TBS. Who knows? 

I was also surprised because I have been active all my life. I go to the gym. I haven’t been doing squats and deadlifts. I haven’t been doing the right exercises for my lower back. I was doing back extensions. It wasn’t like I wasn’t doing any back exercise. Not putting the compressive load on the spine and the hips. 

Dr. Ben: 

It’s understandable. A lot of us are afraid of compressing the spine. You have experts out there advising against doing those exercises. A lot of us have had some episodes of back pain in the past and are cautious about not doing those things. 

Unfortunately, as Belinda Beck has shown, you have to do heavy weights with those basic exercises that load the spine and hips if you want to have good bone density. She has the people who follow her program do five sets of five reps on deadlifts and squats and overhead press. 

Dr. Eric: 

Five sets of five reps of heavy weight. 

Dr. Ben: 

Max, yeah. I don’t do five sets, but I’m doing heavy deadlifts and squats when I can tolerate it. 

Dr. Eric: 

I do four sets. The first one or two are warm-ups, especially that first one. I don’t want to jump into it. 

Dr. Ben: 

I do the same thing. I am probably on deadlifts only doing two super heavy sets. I had stopped doing deadlifts years ago because I felt like they were aggravating my back, and I didn’t think I could tolerate it. 

Dr. Eric: 

Now I understand. Same thing. Well, I just never did them honestly; it’s not that I thought they were aggravating my back. I just never did squats or deadlifts. I did other weight-bearing exercises. 

I was going to ask if you ever did cold laser or anything. You mentioned you did bone stimulators. 

Dr. Ben: 

I did some cold laser. But I used this bone stimulator. There are two on the market. There is one that works with electrical that you need to do for a pretty long period of time. There is one that works through a pulsed ultrasound. The surgeon preferred the pulsed ultrasound, so I went with that one. 

They recommended doing it once a day, so I did it twice a day. I spoke to the rep about doing it three times a day, and she said twice a day probably will give you slightly better benefits, but three times might be too much. I don’t recommend doing it three times a day. Of course, I would have easily done it three times a day. 

Dr. Eric: 

My guess is yes because you have done a lot of research in the past and currently: How about vibration plates? Weighted vests? 

Dr. Ben: 

Yes, I did vibration plates, especially at the beginning because I couldn’t do that much weight loading. I got a vibration plate. I started using it at the home. I thought that was helpful at the beginning. Once I was able to do the heavy loading and everything else, I fell off doing it.

Dr. Eric: 

You did it initially. 

Dr. Ben: 

Yes. 

Dr. Eric: 

For a few months? 

Dr. Ben: 

Yes, I did it for probably 4-5 months. 

Dr. Eric: 

You mentioned the Forteo. Any medication could potentially have side effects, but the Phosphomax, those are notorious as far as known for their side effects.

Dr. Ben: 

There are some possible significant side effects with Forteo. Rat studies have shown bone tumors forming, osteosarcoma. It hasn’t been shown in humans. 

The current understanding is if you do it for two years or less, you have a very high rate of safety. After that, if you’re causing your body to produce more bone, you put it in that anabolic stage for too long, I could see excessive bone forming. Some of that could be cancerous. It would make sense. 

The new thinking about how to treat osteoporosis is that you do a drug like Forteo or Evenity, and you do it for a year or two. Then you follow it with a bisphosphonate. 

Dr. Eric: 

What happens if you don’t follow it with the bisphosphonate? 

Dr. Ben: 

That’s the whole thing. Once again, it’s great that they’re rethinking the way we use drugs. Why not test? For some reason, the medical profession just doesn’t want to spend the money on testing. 

The idea is that when you ramp up the osteoblasts, and you stop, the body ramps up the osteoclasts, and then you will lose bone. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah. 

Dr. Ben: 

Why not test to find out if that’s really the case? That’s what I did. I didn’t see a big ramp-up of osteoclastic activity. Otherwise, I would have asked to be put on a bisphosphonate. 

Dr. Eric: 

You determined that by testing the CTX and P1NP? 

Dr. Ben: 

Yes, exactly. 

Dr. Eric: 

Interesting. 

Dr. Ben: 

The CTX is measuring the rate of bone breakdown, and the P1NP is measuring the rate of bone formation. 

Dr. Eric: 

Also, I was wondering why, maybe it wouldn’t make a difference, but if you are taking Forteo every single day, and if it’s ramping up the osteoblast production, if you abruptly stop, which would affect the bone breakdown, rather than do the injection every day, after a year or a year and a half, do it every other day? Gradually? 

Dr. Ben: 

I kind of did that, not as careful as I could be. Basically, I stopped after five months, but I was getting tired of doing it. I was feeling better. I don’t have time to do it today, so I’ll do it tomorrow. The last three weeks or so was kind of like that, where I did it less consistently and then just stopped. 

Dr. Eric: 

Another question I have. Yours was a unique situation. Yours was a trauma. Then it was labeled as a non-union. You had a choice: get another surgery, which you didn’t want to do, or let’s try this other approach with the Forteo, HGH, stimulation. 

For someone who just has osteoporosis, because osteopenia, typically especially if it’s mild, they won’t recommend the Forteo, maybe not even a bisphosphonate. Maybe they will with osteopenia. With osteoporosis, no doubt. If someone has osteoporosis, a T score of -3.0 or -3.5 or -4.0, how do they know should they- Is it a good idea to take Forteo? Is it a good idea to try to do everything naturally? Maybe do another DEXA scan in a year or two after doing things naturally? 

In your case, I understand why you did it because it was a unique situation. For someone where time seems to be on their side- Now you never know. You could fall like you, and then you’re in trouble. That’s the argument to getting the medication. The potential side effects… For some, it could be a difficult decision. Same thing with anything. With Graves’, you could say to take antithyroid medication or not. You could always take antithyroid medication if the natural approach doesn’t work. Same with surgery, which would be a last resort. 

What’s your opinion as far as when they should consider Forteo? 

Dr. Ben: 

First of all, the bisphosphonates have been used as the only drug in a lot of cases. I think that doctors are starting to rethink that after some of the side effects and the fact that we haven’t seen a dramatic decrease in fracture risk that we want with the bisphosphonates.

Currently, they only recommend a drug like Evenity or Forteo if they think you’re at very high fracture risk. It’s hard to know that. A very low T score. Maybe you’ve had several other fractures in the past. 

I think it makes sense to consider doing a drug like Evenity or Forteo first for a year or two, possibly followed by a bisphosphonate rather than just take a bisphosphonate. It makes a lot of sense than just blocking that bone breakdown. You have to make sure you’re doing all the other things first. Be on a healthy diet. You don’t want to be leaching calcium out of your bones. 

I see too much emphasis on the dangers of calcium. Most of that is just complete nonsense. The reason why everybody is afraid of taking calcium, and I even got caught up with that. 

Dr. Eric: 

Same here. 

Dr. Ben: 

There were a number of studies over the years showing that taking calcium supplements, having higher levels of calcium was beneficial in reducing hypertension, cardiovascular risk, death from heart disease. Then a couple of studies came out that seemed to show that calcium increased your risk of heart disease. 

The thought was that when we talk about heart disease and the risk of heart attack, the big process we’re thinking about is atherosclerosis, which is the formation of plaque buildup in the arteries that over time starts reducing the flow of blood and oxygen through your bloodstream, and in particular, through the arteries in the heart.

If you have a heart attack, usually, that means one of those plaques ruptures and then completely blocks that artery. The part of the heart muscle supplied by that artery suffers damage. If it suffers enough damage, you can die. If not, you just damage part of your heart. 

The fact that these plaques get calcified, the thought was, hey, if we have calcium, you will have an increase in calcified plaque. There were a few studies that seemed to show this. It turns out that those were not really good studies. The participants were not using Vitamin D and Vitamin K. 

The reason why it’s so important to take Vitamin D when you take calcium is Vitamin D grabs hold of the calcium and says, “Come over here into the bones. Don’t get into the soft tissues.” Vitamin K in particular says, “No, don’t get into the soft tissues. Just get into the bone.” It’s really important in my opinion, and I think the data shows this, to have a good, healthy level of Vitamin D. That requires testing, supplementing, and retesting. 

Too many patients have low Vitamin D. The doctor says, “Take 1,000 or 2,000 Vitamin D,” and maybe doesn’t even test them again. Or tests them in a couple of years and says, “It’s still low. Oh well.” 

The reality is, most of the time, if you have really low levels of Vitamin D, you probably need more than 2,000 IUs; you might need 5,000 or 10,000. Some people respond really well, and their Vitamin D might ramp up to 120. A lot of people don’t. You need to test. You need to supplement appropriately, and you need to retest. 

Whenever you’re taking Vitamin D, you want to make sure you’re taking Vitamin K. There are three different forms of Vitamin K on the market. We have Vitamin K1, which is found in green leafy vegetables. 

We have two forms of Vitamin K2. We have MK4 and MK7. Today, there is a lot of hype around the MK7. It is the newest one. It’s been promoted a lot. It seems to have some benefits. Most of the studies on bone density were all done with MK4. A lot of these were done in Japan. Really significant increase in bone density and decrease in cardiovascular risk taking the right amount of MK4. 

Most of the supplements on the market for K2 involve 150mcg. The studies that have shown the most benefit use 45mg of MK4. That’s what I’ve been advocating for patients who are concerned about bone density. There are a few companies that offer that now. I think it’s really important.

Getting back to the calcium thing. There are a few poorly done studies that seemed to show that taking calcium supplements was associated with increased heart risk. The reality is for a modest amount of well-absorbed calcium, and as you know, when it comes to supplements, we want to make sure they are well absorbed. You don’t want to use calcium carbonate, which is limestone, because it’s not that well absorbed. You want to take it a few times a day with meals, so you have stomach acid to break it down. You also want to have good hydrochloric acid production, or you won’t break it down.

When it comes to calcification of the plaques, it turns out we shouldn’t be so worried about calcification of the plaques. We should be worried about having any plaque formation. If you are going to have plaque in your arteries, you’re better off if that plaque is calcified. Calcified plaque is stable. Uncalcified plaque or soft plaque is unstable. When you have a heart attack, 70% of the time, that is because you have soft plaque that ruptures and forms a clot.

Dr. Eric: 

When you do a calcium score, that is looking at the hardened. You will have to do an angiogram or something else? 

Dr. Ben: 

Yes, the best test is the CT angiogram with artificial intelligence through a company called Clearly Health. You can look around. There should be a lab in your area that offers that test. A CT angiogram with artificial intelligence. That test will show the soft plaque as well as the hard plaque. That can be very important. 

You can have a younger guy who has some plaque and say the coronary calcium scan is not that high, but they can have a lot of soft plaque. Usually over time, the plaque will tend to calcify.

If you take a statin, statins tend to calcify the plaque. Some people think that that’s a bad thing because you might see an increase in the calcium score. Once again, you don’t want any plaque in your arteries. If you are going to have plaque, you’d rather have it be calcified than soft and unstable. 

Dr. Eric: 

Makes sense. 

Dr. Ben: 

To take a modest amount of calcium with magnesium, as long as you take the Vitamin D and Vitamin K, is safe and beneficial. I think it’s really important for bone density. 

Dr. Eric: 

All right. Wonderful advice. I have a calcium score, which was thankfully zero. Like you said- 

Dr. Ben: 

Mine, too.  

Dr. Eric: 

I have not gotten the angiogram. 

Dr. Ben: 

It’s a little more invasive. You have to take some radioactive iodine. It is a CT scan. 

Dr. Eric: 

Radioactive iodine or just iodine contrast?

Dr. Ben: 

It has to be radioactive, right? It’s iodine contrast, but it has to be picked up by X-rays. You don’t want to get it done a lot. I think it’s worth getting it once or twice. You want to make sure you go to a lab that has the most modern CT scan. The modern CT scans use less radiation than the older equipment. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s good to know. I’m just thinking, again, dealing with people I work with as well as the people listening to this have thyroid conditions. There is good and bad with iodine. 

Dr. Ben: 

Right, I totally understand that. 

Dr. Eric: 

If anybody is thinking about that CT angiogram, I can’t say it’s risk-free for someone with hyperthyroidism. 

Dr. Ben: 

Absolutely not. I understand that. I know about the iodine thing. I have Hashimoto’s. 

Dr. Eric: 

It’s still good to know. If you get a calcium score, that’s great, but it’s incomplete. 

Dr. Ben: 

If you have a calcium score of 0, that’s pretty good. That means you will unlikely have a higher score on the CT angiogram. 

Dr. Eric: 

All right. This was a lot of great information. I learned some things. I will definitely inquire about the TBS. It sounds like not every facility offers that. I might have to look it up. 

Dr. Ben: 

They have to have the software. If you have your DEXA scan done at a lab that has the software, they could go back and reanalyze your previous test. 

Dr. Eric: 

I wouldn’t necessarily need to get another DEXA if the facility I went to offers that. They could go back and still use it? 

Dr. Ben: 

Yes. 

Dr. Eric: 

Even if it was a year ago? 

Dr. Ben: 

I think so. I’m sure they have a digital copy of your data. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah, I’m sure they do. I might have to inquire and see if the radiology place that I went to offers that. 

Dr. Ben: 

Most doctors don’t know about it, so they don’t often order it. It makes sense. 

Dr. Eric: 

It makes perfect sense. If you have a good TBS, even if you have osteopenia or osteoporosis, especially osteoporosis, you still want to do some of the things you mentioned, but still, there is at least some reassurance. You might not be at great risk of getting a fracture. 

Dr. Ben: 

In a similar vein, if you measure LDL particle size and number, somebody can have a higher LDL, but if they don’t have a lot of small, dense LDL and larger LDL particles, you are really not at that much risk. 

Dr. Eric: 

Dr. Ben, thank you so much for sharing this. I’m glad that protocol worked for you, non-union is no longer an issue, and you got that bone formation. Thank you so much for sharing that. Can you remind people where they can find you? 

Dr. Ben: 

You can go to my website, DrWeitz.com. You can call my office in Santa Monica at 310-395-3111. Please check out the Rational Wellness Podcast, which is available on all the audio platforms: Apple Podcasts, Spotify. There is also a video version on YouTube. 

Dr. Eric: 

Awesome. Thanks again. This was a really good conversation. I’m sure a lot of people benefited. The bone density is widespread, not just in the thyroid space, but really everywhere. Like you said, not enough doctors are recommending it, mainly for women, and they are waiting until they already have it. 

Dr. Ben: 

It’s crazy to wait until they have osteoporosis. Why not check it at 40? Let’s be proactive. That’s one thing about functional medicine. If we find out about these chronic diseases, which are these long processes, let’s find out down here, not way up here. We tend to wait until someone has a severe case. 

Dr. Eric: 

I agree. Thank you. This definitely will bring more awareness. Always enjoy chatting with you. We’ll definitely have to have you back when you get that longevity book. You have to make it a goal in 2026 to finish that book. 

Dr. Ben: 

Thanks. 

Dr. Eric: 

Take care, doc. 

Dr. Ben: 

Thanks, bye. 

***

Dr. Eric: 

Awesome conversation. It was a little awkward reading his bio. It was his fault because he didn’t give an updated bio. When I have a repeat guest, if they don’t include an updated bio, I will just read the old bio. I didn’t realize he mentioned that he was writing the book a few years ago. As I read it, I realized that was a few years ago. Did he finish writing the book? He didn’t. Lesson learned on my part: even if it’s a repeat guest, maybe don’t read the bio if they haven’t updated it. 

Dr. Ben unfortunately fractured his hip. He was handing out Halloween candy and holding his dog on his other hand. Traumatic. We’re recording this a little bit before Halloween. I wanted to ask him if he, when handing out candy, is it more natural candy, or is it just the regular candy, like M&Ms and Snickers? If someone is a naturopath or chiropractor, you’d think they would go to Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods and buy more natural candy. 

I find it’s better not to give candy. If you want to give out natural candy because I can understand not wanting to give junk. At the same time, the kids usually don’t want natural candy. They want Snickers and M&Ms. It’s different with your own kids if you’re raising them to eat natural stuff, like snacks without artificial flavorings and colorings. Just wanted to bring it up since it might come out after Halloween. I’m not sure. It’s being recorded right around this time.

Should you get a bone density/DEXA scan? I asked Dr. Ben if he got one prior to his fracture, and he didn’t. Most people don’t get one. I got one only because I asked for one, or else I still wouldn’t have one. 

I should have asked for one a long time ago because I dealt with Graves’ in 2008. I probably should have had a bone density scan sometime in my 40s or right after that. It was 2008 when I turned 38. 39/40, I should have had a bone density scan. I waited years after that. 

A lot of people have osteopenia, osteoporosis and don’t know it. I’m not a big fan of scans, but everything is risk versus benefit, especially if you have hyperthyroidism. It doesn’t make a difference. There are people with osteoporosis who don’t have thyroid conditions but have gut issues. They are not properly digesting or absorbing the nutrients they need. There are numerous reasons for low bone density. If you haven’t had a DEXA scan, something to consider.

TBS looks at bone strength compared to bone density. I mentioned how that’s not something I got. I have had other bone experts. I should have relistened to some of these. I should have done research before doing the DEXA scan. Quite frankly, I was surprised. I did it. I didn’t think I would have low bone density. I figured I’d do it, and it would be fine. Maybe I’ll go back and still potentially get the TBS if they offer it at the radiology place. I need to remember to look into that. 

If you haven’t had a DEXA scan, or if you plan on doing another one in the future, get the TBS. Eventually, I will do another one and make sure to get that done if I can’t go back and get it done for the DEXA scan I did previously. 

When to consider bone density medication? This might seem a little odd of an episode because he was talking about taking the Forteo, taking HGH. The big thing is the Forteo. I don’t love medication for bone density. The bisphosphonates are worse. You are supposed to follow up Forteo with bisphosphonates. 

He had a bit of a desperate situation. It was either get the surgery or try something different. If I were him, I don’t know I would have thought about doing that, but it was brilliant taking the Forteo and HGH. He went all out. Five months, which most people take Forteo for osteoporosis for two years. 

It’s not an easy decision. I know for some people listening, they might think it is an easy decision. “I just won’t take the medication.” That was my perspective when I dealt with Graves’. Easy decision. I will just start with bugleweed and motherwort. If I need to, I can take antithyroid medication. 

There are always risks. There are risks when you don’t take antithyroid medication. If you have severe osteoporosis, and you slip and fall, you could potentially be in a lot of pain for a long time. Then you have to weigh the potential side effects. 

It’s up to the person. If someone has really severe osteoporosis, I understand if you decide to take the medication. Regardless, whether you take the medication or not, you want to do everything else. As Dr. Ben mentioned, you want to eat healthy, do proper exercise, make sure you have healthy Vitamin D levels, take Vitamin K2, which we’ll talk about K2 in a minute. 

Vibration plates. I have been using a vibration plate three days a week for 10 minutes a day typically. I don’t think you’re supposed to use it every day from what I’ve read.

I also have a weighted vest. I don’t use that every day either. 

I will usually do everything on the same day. Not sure if I should be doing that. I figure I’ll do my squats, deadlifts, vibration plate, and weighted vest three days a week. The other days, I will give my body a rest. Maybe it’s better not to put that stress on it every single day. That’s the approach I take. 

With the vibration plates, I read you’re not supposed to use it every day. The weighted vest, it might be fine to do it daily. I wouldn’t use it for squats and deadlifts every single day.

Vitamin K2. He spoke about the difference between MK4 and MK7. Most studies out there are using MK4. He said that the amount included in most supplements is low, and you should be taking 45mg, which is a lot. 

I have done research with Vitamin K2, and I know higher doses seem pretty safe. I am not concerned about taking 45mg. You figure most supplement companies do their own research, and they would know. He said there are only a couple companies that offer supplements of Vitamin K2 in MK4 that offer it in 45mg dosing. I did do a little bit of research. Meant to ask him, but I forgot. Life Extension is one of them. I don’t know what the other one is.

I wanted to finish up by mentioning what type of calcium should you take? He mentioned not to take calcium carbonate but didn’t say what you should take. You want to try to get as much as you can through food. You want to get 1,000-1,200 of calcium per day. I have to check the units. I should know this, but I’m blanking. 

Thorne Research’s Advanced Bone Support is really good. They use calcium malate. The only thing is that calcium can be constipating. If that’s the case, calcium citrate is pretty good also for bone health. If you’re on the sluggish side with the bowels, calcium citrate may be better. Calcium malate is also an option. 

Of course, try to get as much as you can through food. I don’t eat fish with bones. If you do, that’s an excellent source of calcium. Sardines, for example. I do get some plant-based sources. 

More recently, I have been drinking goat milk kefir. I don’t recommend this while someone is healing, especially if someone has an autoimmune thyroid condition. I recommend a break from dairy while healing. Since I have been in remission for a long time, I haven’t been dairy-free all these years. I haven’t been drinking milk. Goat milk kefir. That’s what I’ve been doing from a calcium standpoint. I supplement with some calcium, too. 

That’s pretty much all I wanted to chat about. As usual, I hope you found this episode to be valuable. I look forward to catching you in the next episode.

Far too many people are living with misdiagnosed Graves’ or ignored hyperthyroidism and they don’t even know it yet. In this episode, I explain why these oversights happen, what red flags to watch for, and how to ask for the right labs. You’ll also hear how small clues like heart palpitations or low cholesterol can point to a bigger thyroid problem. My goal is to help you recognize the signs early and feel confident advocating for your health.  If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

The other day, my wife got a call from a friend. I am friends with this friend’s husband. She said that her husband was diagnosed with elevated TPO antibodies. She wasn’t sure what TPO antibodies were and wanted to know if I could explain it to them. The doctor did some blood testing. All I really knew at that point in time was that the husband got TPO antibodies, and they were 135, something like that. I actually didn’t even look at the report. They didn’t send it to me. They just wanted to talk to me. 

I ended up speaking with the husband. When I think about elevated TPO antibodies, a lot of people with hyperthyroidism do have elevated TPO antibodies. If that is the only thing they’re mentioning, I am thinking more hypo. My friend probably had elevated TSH, and they did TPO antibodies and found them to be elevated. He probably has Hashimoto’s. 

I was speaking with him. One of the first things he mentioned was he was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. At first, I wasn’t sure if he said “hyper.” If you say “hyper” and “hypo” fast, they sound similar. I repeated, “Did you say hyperthyroidism?” He said, “Yes, hyperthyroidism.” He was mentioning that he was fatigued. He knows from his research or what the doctor told him that fatigue is more common with hypothyroidism, but he has had a lot of fatigue. He isn’t losing weight. Essentially, he went to his primary care doctor, who ran some blood tests and told him he was hyper.

What I wanted to bring up is he also mentioned that he had blood tests about a year ago. Those blood tests apparently also showed that he was hyper, but they dismissed it. The medical doctor that he just saw mentioned that his last numbers were also hyper, but for whatever reason, they didn’t do anything. 

I figured I’d have another episode focusing on hyperthyroidism just because with Hashimoto’s, it definitely does get misdiagnosed. Someone could have fatigue and weight gain, and maybe they do a TSH, and it’s within the lab range, but not optimal. It’s higher than it should be, higher than the optimal range. Without question, people with Hashimoto’s often get misdiagnosed or maybe not diagnosed at all. 

Many times, doctors will just dismiss it and run the TSH. TSH might be 3.5, which is within the lab range. I can’t really say it’s misdiagnosed because that’s the range they use. It just gets ignored essentially for many years until the TSH gets to the point where it’s out of range, or the person goes to another practitioner, maybe even a functional medicine practitioner. 

Anyway, my friend went to a primary care doctor. He didn’t get the Graves’ antibodies. He has another appointment in a couple of months, not until January 2026. I am recording this in mid-October 2025. Probably won’t be released for a little bit. He is waiting a couple of months to get the blood test, and then he has his follow-up appointment in January. 

It sounds like he is on antithyroid medication. I asked him if it was methimazole or Tapazole. He wasn’t sure. He was out and about, but that is what I am thinking he is on. I told him he probably has Graves’ because if he had it last year, something like subacute thyroiditis will disappear. It could be Hashitoxicosis. That’s a possibility as well. He hasn’t had a thyroid ultrasound or seen an endocrinologist yet.

The point is that Graves’ can get misdiagnosed. Hyperthyroidism can get misdiagnosed. It can get overlooked or ignored. I wanted to bring up a few situations here. 

There was a case report showing that a patient with a thyroid storm was actually misdiagnosed as having a panic attack because symptoms overlap heavily. That’s pretty scary. If someone goes to the ER, and they’re presenting with a thyroid storm, but they are told they have a panic attack. This is an extreme situation. I would imagine most of the time, a person who is experiencing a thyroid storm won’t just be told that they are having a panic attack. 

The background is: “Graves’ is characterized by hyperthyroidism, and its symptoms often overlap with those with panic disorder, which may make it difficult to distinguish between the two conditions. In this report, we describe how proper diagnosis of thyroid disease in patients with mental illness can lead to appropriate treatment.” 

They encountered a 34-year-old woman. Thyroid crisis from Graves’ was misdiagnosed as a panic attack. The patient was being managed as a case of panic disorder and bipolar disorder in a psychiatric outpatient setting. 

About six months before the presentation, she had lost about 16kg in weight. A month before presentation, she developed several unpleasant symptoms as her condition worsened. Several weeks before, she had severe palpitations, tachycardia, discomfort in her throat. She visited the ER on a Sunday morning, presenting with nausea, severe tachycardia (elevated heart rate), fever, restlessness with anxiety, and we treated her as panic disorder with fever. Then noticed proptosis, bulging of the eyes. Considered the possibility of Graves’, and thyroid function tests were performed, even though data from her clinic was not available because it was a weekend. 

In this situation, if it wasn’t for the woman’s eyes being suspicious, who knows? She might have been dismissed and labeled as having a panic disorder. Really scary. 

I can’t say this happens a lot. I have had patients I have worked with with hyperthyroidism who have been to multiple practitioners. On average, hyperthyroidism does get diagnosed a lot quicker than hypothyroidism, but there are definitely exceptions. People get the runaround and have to go to multiple doctors. 

I also wanted to bring up this other one from March 2025. Talking about how Graves’ therapies really haven’t advanced much. The abstract says up front, “Current therapies for Graves’ primarily aim to manage hyperthyroidism through synthetic antithyroid drugs, radioactive iodine, or surgery. However, these approaches are often limited by their incomplete efficacy, and the risk of inducing hypothyroidism.” 

They talk about other potential treatments that are up and coming. At least they’re experimenting with them. They’re medications, not addressing the root causes. That’s another issue. 

Same thing with Hashimoto’s. For many years, Hashimoto’s treatment was levothyroxine when you go to a medical doctor or endocrinologist. No different with hyperthyroidism. For many years, it’s been antithyroid medication, radioactive iodine, or thyroid surgery. If you bring up diet and lifestyle changes to most doctors, including endocrinologists, they will dismiss it as not being helpful. Very discouraging appointments. 

A reminder that the goal of this podcast. There are a few goals. One is we are spotting misdiagnosis stories. Teaching listeners the red flags that can often get dismissed as anxiety, panic attacks, or other symptoms. 

Another area which I need to focus more on is underdiscussed populations. I don’t talk a lot about children and teenagers because most of the people I work with are adults. I do see some children and teenagers as well. I have some episodes on that. I am not saying that should be the main focus, but probably something I do need to talk more about. There are other populations and things I should focus on more on this podcast. 

Going over the science. Recently, I released an episode that spoke about L-carnitine and selenium in combination with methimazole. If you take those two with methimazole, you might need less methimazole, which is always a good thing. That was also a recent study. Always trying to keep up with the latest research in thyroid health and thyroid autoimmunity. 

Now, what I’d like to do is talk about how to reduce the risk of misdiagnosis as a Graves’ patient. Hyperthyroidism without an autoimmune component, like toxic multinodular goiter. Of course, we need to know the symptoms that mimic other conditions. We just gave panic-like symptoms, anxiety. It’s sometimes difficult, and we will talk about other things you can do, like testing. 

Anxiety, racing heart, tremors, sweating. That could be mistaken for panic attacks. Depression, fatigue, sleep issues, irritability, may be labeled as a mood disorder. Having weight loss and high appetite might be brushed off as having good metabolism or someone’s dieting. 

When I dealt with Graves’, I lost a lot of weight and had a higher appetite. I was dieting, detoxifying, overtraining. Eventually, I saw a doctor because I developed a tachycardia. If I saw a doctor sooner, they might have said it was due to the dieting and exercising. That’s what I thought, too. I was intentionally trying to lose weight and figured because I was restricting calories—I wasn’t doing smart things back then—that’s why I had increased appetite. 

Post-partum changes sometimes are written off as new mom stress or depression. It could be post-partum thyroiditis. We do need to pay closer attention to the person’s symptoms. The problem is with many medical doctors, they just don’t spend enough time with the patient. They of course have them fill out a comprehensive health history, or they should. Even then, they might probably just spend a minute or so skimming through that, going through that quickly. 

Quite frankly, most medical doctors aren’t seeing a lot of people with hyperthyroidism walk into their office. When they have certain symptoms, that is probably not the first thing to come to mind.

You also need to do appropriate lab testing. TSH is usually what doctors start off with. I mentioned in the case of hypothyroidism, a lot of people are above the optimal range but within the lab range, so they are dismissed. 

Hyperthyroidism is different. If someone has Graves’, TSH many times will be depressed. If the doctor or whomever orders the test and sees depressed TSH, if they haven’t ordered thyroid hormones, they should. Many times, they will just do a T4. Sometimes, TSH isn’t completely depressed. Sometimes, it takes time for that to happen. It could happen real quickly but not always. 

You really want to do a full thyroid panel. At the very least, TSH and free T4. That is not a full thyroid panel. Not just TSH. You want to do TSH, free T4, free T3, antibodies. If you are suspecting Graves’, do TSI. I prefer TSI over TRAB. Still, that is better than not testing any antibodies. 

In this case, even though my friend was hyper, he just had TPO antibodies tested. That is a drawback of seeing a conventional medical doctor. They are even less likely to see hyperthyroid patients. They just default to those TPO antibodies or sometimes TPO and TG antibodies in everyone, even if someone presents with hyperthyroidism. 

Definitely want to do the right antibodies. If you want to do all three antibodies, nothing wrong with that, especially if someone is presenting with hyperthyroidism. Many misdiagnoses happen because only TSH is checked. TSH doesn’t tell the whole story. 

Another thing is to be familiar with the red flag combinations. If you have rapid heartbeat and weight loss, I could understand where if you go to a primary care doctor, they might not catch on that it’s hyperthyroidism. 

That’s also why you want to look at other aspects of one’s health history and do appropriate testing. If that same person has rapid heartbeat, weight loss, and some eye changes, especially bulging of the eyes, in that case, that was what made the people at the ER realize it wasn’t probably just a panic disorder but a good chance it was Graves’.

If someone is in post-partum, and they are having sudden mood swings and other symptoms, maybe the milk supply drops. If they are having tachycardia. Test the thyroid. Do some testing. Don’t assume it’s stress or mood related. 

If someone does a lipid panel, and they see low cholesterol, which is very common with hyperthyroidism. I wouldn’t rely on the lipid panel because some people have elevated cholesterol with hyperthyroidism. Very common for people with hyperthyroidism to have low cholesterol, less than 150. LDL will also be lower. Most medical doctors don’t pay attention to low cholesterol, just high cholesterol. 

If you go through a physical, and maybe they don’t do TSH at all, but you are experiencing symptoms. You have low cholesterol, and you’re probably going to have some other symptoms as well. Just low cholesterol would not justify doing a thyroid panel. There is a reason for low cholesterol. It could potentially be genetic, but it could be something else as well.

Advocate for imaging if needed. When I went to an endocrinologist back in 2008, I was already diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. I was referred to an endocrinologist, where I got the official Graves’ diagnosis. We could see I didn’t need an ultrasound. An ultrasound is not going to diagnose Graves’. 

If you’re hyper and have positive TSI antibodies, that is pretty much diagnostic of Graves’. If you have hyperthyroidism and bulging eyes, you probably have Graves’. Some people do a radioactive iodine uptake test, which in many cases is unnecessary, especially if TSI is elevated in the presence of hyperthyroidism. 

I asked for an ultrasound because I wanted to see if I had thyroid nodules. She palpated my thyroid and didn’t think I did. I still wanted that ultrasound. That’s why some will do the uptake test, if they want to see if the nodules are hot or cold. If they’re cold, there is a greater chance of them being malignant, but still only a 5% chance. It won’t confirm if someone has malignant nodules or not. 

Also, don’t be afraid to seek a second opinion. Do so sooner than later. If you’re experiencing all these symptoms and they dismiss them as anxiety, panic attack, and if you don’t agree, or maybe you agree because they’re the expert, but they could be wrong. You might want to consider getting a second diagnosis. 

Endocrinologists are not perfect, especially if you are looking for a natural approach. Usually, they do a good job of diagnosing. If you go to one GP, and they just say you have anxiety or panic attacks, you could go to another GP. Might want to see an endocrinologist. 

I know it’s challenging because they might not even bring up thyroid. Why would you go to an endocrinologist if they are not thinking thyroid, and you aren’t thinking of thyroid? It could be challenging. If you have to go to another GP, then go to another GP. Hope that they do the appropriate testing. 

Don’t be afraid to offer to pay for it. If they say your insurance might not pay for a thyroid panel, it comes down to diagnosis codes. If you have insurance, and they are putting in the right diagnosis codes, that they are suspecting it might be, that’s the thing about testing. You don’t know if it’s thyroid or not. That’s why you’re doing testing. If you knew, you wouldn’t have to do testing. Insurance isn’t going to deny the claim because the doctor ordered a thyroid panel, and it turned out to be normal. They did it to rule it out, to make sure. 

I shouldn’t say that the insurance company won’t deny because they do crazy things. It comes down to proper diagnosis codes and all that good stuff. 

Of course, look beyond thyroid labs. I mentioned some other symptoms are still important, even though you don’t want to rely on symptoms. If you get a bone density scan and have osteopenia or osteoporosis, there could be a lot of reasons for that. Could be hyperthyroidism. Maybe you had hyperthyroidism in the past. I would argue that most people who have low bone density don’t currently have hyperthyroidism. 

The point is you need to keep an open mind. You need to really work with a practitioner who is not just going to rush you in and out. Trust your instincts as well. 

If you are working with a natural healthcare practitioner, choose one who has experience with hyperthyroidism and Graves’. Doesn’t mean that has to be the main focus, like myself. It doesn’t have to be their #1 focus. 

I would at least call the office or visit their website, and if they don’t have anything on their website about hyperthyroidism, that’s a big red flag. If none of the testimonials on their website talk about how they dealt with hyperthyroidism and restoring their health, that’s another red flag. 

You could speak with an office worker and ask them some of the top conditions that the functional medicine practitioner works with. If they just say “thyroid,” I would dig deeper and ask about specific thyroid conditions. If they say “hyper” and “hypo,” then see what they have to say. If they just say, “hypothyroidism and Hashimoto’s,” another red flag. 

The main purpose of this is to bring more awareness. That is the purpose of this whole podcast and other things I do. Hopefully, you found this to be valuable. 

Also, I have been talking recently about my Healing Graves’ Naturally community. Living with Graves’ or other types of hyperthyroidism, you can feel incredibly lonely. You go online and search for answers, and most of what is online is about Hashimoto’s. 

If you do see an endocrinologist, they will typically just tell you to take antithyroid medication or do radioactive iodine or surgery. Nobody explains why you have hyperthyroidism or Graves’. If you have Graves’, they don’t talk about what your antibodies mean. They might only test them a single time. It could be really confusing or overwhelming. At times, it makes you feel like you’re the only one going through this. 

I do have a couple of Facebook groups. The problem with Facebook groups is they are so large. I don’t trust Facebook. They could shut down my groups at any time. They sometimes will randomly delete people’s comments. I still have my Facebook groups, but I also created a new community specifically for Graves’ and hyperthyroidism that is not on Facebook. It definitely is something I recommend checking out. 

Inside this community, we focus on the answers you can’t find elsewhere. Right now, it’s smaller, and that’s the goal. The engagement is really great. Definitely would check it out. The name of the group is Healing Graves’ Naturally. A number of different benefits of being part of the community. Hope beyond the standard three options recommended by endocrinologists. 

There is a time and place for antithyroid medication. A lot of people I work with are on methimazole, carbimazole, or PTU. Some like myself take natural agents like motherwort, bugleweed, or higher doses of L-carnitine. Obviously, the focus isn’t going to be on medication, radioactive iodine, or surgery. It will be on finding and removing triggers, healing the gut. You will obviously get guidance from someone who has been there in myself. It’s not exactly the same. You are not working with me one-on-one. 

In the Facebook groups, I am just not present. Sometimes, I will do a random Q&A. I do some commenting, but I don’t spend a lot of time in there because in my hyperthyroidism Facebook group, as of recording this, there are almost 25,000 people. It’s just too big. 

If I do post something, which I do regularly, they are very basic. Only a small amount of people see them because that’s Facebook’s algorithm. Anyway, you will get some support and guidance in the group. There is a lot of engagement from others in the group. Of course, evidence-based natural solutions as well. 

Also, just to let you know, the group is free. I want to help as many people as I can. Eventually, my plan is probably going to become a paid group. I want to keep it small. The goal is not to keep it super small. I don’t want 10,000-20,000 people in the group. I think that’s too big. My perspective maybe will change. Today, you can join at no cost. 

When you join, you also gain free access to my brand new Graves’ Survival Road Map Training. If you are interested, click in the show notes. Become part of the community that finally puts Graves’ and hyperthyroidism at the center of the conversation. I’m sure you’ll be happy that you did. 

I am going to continue to spread the word. The interviews that I do will focus on both Graves’ and Hashimoto’s because most people I interview aren’t familiar with hyperthyroidism. You will see that not all but more of the solo episodes will focus on hyperthyroidism. 

Hope you found this episode to be valuable. Look forward to catching you in the next one. 

Recently, I interviewed Dr. Erin Ellis, a naturopathic doctor whose own health journey from Non-Hodgkin lymphoma to Hashimoto’s completely reshaped how she approaches healing. We talk about her path from cancer survivor to women’s hormone specialist, and how she uncovered the deeper connections between thyroid autoimmunity, toxins, and genetic vulnerability.  If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

Let’s talk about your background. The non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, I’m sure, a big surprise. Thankfully, you were able to restore your health, and that’s what motivated you to become a naturopathic doctor. You focus on hormones. Do you also help people with cancer, too? 

Dr. Erin Ellis: 

I don’t. I usually refer people out to board-certified naturopathic oncologists for alternative medicine. I will support patients post-cancer trying to get to the root cause of why they had the cancer in the first place because that’s what I’ve discovered for myself over the last couple years. Why does this keep happening to me? No, I don’t directly treat patients with cancer. 

Dr. Eric: 

What led you to start focusing on women’s hormones? 

Dr. Erin: 

When I graduated from med school, I wanted to do cancer care. Then I was like, no. The reason I wanted to do it is because I could relate. I had been in their shoes. I decided it wasn’t for me. I really found the need to help women and women’s health. 

I hated women’s health when I was in school because it’s hard. Hormones are hard. Everyone is different. You don’t want to do anything that’s really hard, right? Then I felt the need.

I really became infatuated with menstrual health. The lack of information and education out there for women’s health is awful. It’s really broken for women. They’re left feeling dismissed and suffering and having these atrocious periods. They’re entering perimenopause and menopause, and they lost their life. They don’t feel like themselves. They’re being dismissed by their doctors and feeling hopeless, doing all the cardio in the world and gaining weight left and right. 

That’s why I decided to help restore hope in women that their symptoms are real. We can help them. We just need to give their body the chance to heal and give it what it needs, and they can get their life back. That’s how I got into women’s health. I love it. It’s fun. Every day is different. 

Dr. Eric: 

Every day is different. Every woman is different. You were also diagnosed with Hashimoto’s. Can you give that story? When were you diagnosed? 

Dr. Erin: 

I had the cancer diagnosis in 2010. I went to medical school, starting in 2013, graduating in 2017. Right around graduation, I did lab work and had this underactive thyroid. I had hypothyroidism. I was on natural desiccated thyroid for years. Then I do my labs, trying to do them twice a year, maybe once a year. 

The fall of 2020, I had an antibody response, and I’d never had antibodies show up on my labs before. I would draw them every time. I all of a sudden had this Hashimoto’s diagnosis. I did labs after I had a 42-day cycle, which is very rare for me. I’d never had a long cycle. I was always clockwork, every 28 days. I decided to do my labs and check on my hormones. Then I had this antibody response. Holy cow, I have Hashimoto’s. 

I’m not entirely sure what was the driving factor. It might have been the pandemic as far as the stress of it. I had just opened my own practice, Hope Natural Health, in January 2020, not knowing that the pandemic was happening. Even though the pandemic didn’t affect my practice at all, still, it’s that world of uncertainty that we were living in for so many months, not knowing what the hell was going to happen. I’m not sure if that was the driving factor.

Or what I discovered later in these last couple years is it could have just been a compounded effect of all this poor cellular health I had had for all these years. Maybe the chemotherapy and all the stress that the medical treatments had done to my body that was put through this antibody response.

That’s how I discovered it, through routine labs. The only symptom was the prolonged cycle. I didn’t have any other thyroid symptoms. I was on medication. That’s how it all started. Back in 2020 with Hashimoto’s. 

Dr. Eric:

Five years prior, hypothyroidism. Then you were on desiccated thyroid. It wasn’t until 2020 that you first tested positive for antibodies. 

Dr. Erin: 

Yep. 

Dr. Eric: 

Any family history of Hashimoto’s? 

Dr. Erin: 

No. My dad has hypothyroidism. I think my grandma might have. Nobody that we know of has Hashimoto’s. As you know, it’s not really tested so much in mainstream medicine. Who knows? They could have had it and not even known it. 

Dr. Eric: 

Are you still taking desiccated thyroid? 

Dr. Erin: 

I had a real aha moment probably last spring. I see a chiropractor regularly. In 2010, I was diagnosed with cancer. I have been cancer-free since, as far as the non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. I was diagnosed at age 31. The form I had was very rare, typically found in older men. 31 and a female, so I did not fit the criteria. Otherwise healthy. I didn’t think I was unhealthy. That really changed my life. It changed my outlook on health and wellness. 

I became healthier. I started eating vegetables. I guess I wasn’t that healthy, but I was a standard American. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I didn’t know any of this until I went to med school.

I continued on with life. In 2022, I had a really rough year. I’m 47. I started doing my breast imaging at age 40. We also have other cancer in the family. My mom’s had breast cancer twice. She’s also had endometrial cancer. We have done all the genetic testing, and I don’t carry any genes for anything. nor does she. 

In 2022, I had some stuff show up on my left breast, which is atypical lobular hyperplasia. I had a lumpectomy. Right after that, I was diagnosed with malignant melanoma on my back. I had surgery for that. Right after that, I had squamous cell carcinoma on my arm. That was a really rough year. 

2023 was. Fine. I had all my scans. Everything was clear. 

In 2024, in the beginning, I went for my MRI for my breast. Something else came up in two spots. They It ended up being the ALH again plus some DCIS, which is ductal carcinoma in situ, which is basically pre-cancer. 

I had been going to my mom’s breast surgeon because I trusted her, and she knows my family history. She said, “Erin, I’m really worried about you. You’re like a ticking time bomb.” She told me it was a matter of time before I developed breast cancer. “You should really consider doing a bilateral mastectomy, preventative, with reconstruction.” 

She put the fear into me, “Oh my god, I’m going to get cancer again. I don’t want this to happen.” For someone who has already had cancer, it is very triggering. You also put a lot of trust in doctors because that’s their specialty. I am not trained in oncology or surgery or breast health. 

I had gone to my chiropractor, and I told her I had gone to see a breast surgeon for breast reconstructive surgery. I had gotten all the estimates for cost. I had a potential surgery scheduled. I was thinking about it. She didn’t ask me. Well, she did ask me, but she made a nice, interesting comment. “A surgeon’s job is to do surgery. Have you ever thought about why this is happening to you?” 

You might agree with me, but doctors are the worst patients. I help women every day get to the root cause of why they have their symptoms. I never really thought about, “Erin, why are you having these symptoms? Why is this happening in your body?” 

She gave me a name of a lady I should have checked out. I listened to a podcast. It’s Dr. Jen Simmons. Light bulbs went off. Holy cow. This is fascinating. I cancelled everything. I am going to get to the root as to why I had non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, why this stuff is happening in my breast, why I had skin cancer. Why can’t I get healthy? Why is all this stuff happening to me? 

I have never been healthier, right? I do all the things. I stopped drinking alcohol. I take all the supplements. I exercise, I sleep, I meditate, I cold plunge, I sauna. I do all of the things. I do way more than the average person. 

I started working with another naturopathic doctor. I am not managing my health. I don’t want to. I had done tons of testing. She put it all together for me. 

Moral of the story is I do have a lot of SNPs or genetic dispositions that essentially put me at a disadvantage. I have been at a disadvantage for a very long time, which made the ability for the cancer to grow in the first place. Cancer really is a normal response to an abnormal environment. I had an abnormal environment that developed this cancer. I haven’t fully restored myself since then. Any time I get “assaulted” by environmental toxins, pesticides, stress, you name it, it’s literally like I’m getting attacked. I have to work a lot harder than the average person to heal myself. 

I went on a really strict detox protocol. I have been doing glutathione pushes because I also found out that I have a genetic disposition to glutathione. Glutathione, for anyone that doesn’t know, is our body’s most potent antioxidant. I burn through mine. I need more. Who would have thought I needed more? 

I give myself intravenous pushes once a week. I was doing them twice a week to boost myself. I was doing a lot of cellular health. I did an oxidative stress test on myself. It said I had the cells of a 68-year-old person basically. At that time, I was 45, I think. 20 years older than what I should be. 

I did a lot of cellular repair and restored mitochondrial function. Really cleaned up my diet. Watched pesticides. Ramped up my sauna use because I had to work a little bit harder. I was doing the things, but I needed to do more of the things. 

I was on this strict supplement protocol for about six months. Meanwhile, I decided I was not going to do any more mammograms or MRIs, yet I still had this DCIS in my left breast. I had had the imaging in April 2024, and then I went for a QT scan. I learned that from Dr. Jen Simmons, this qualitative transmission test for the breast that is 40% more sensitive than a breast MRI. We are lucky enough to have one here in Arizona. I went and did it. They compared my MRIs and mammograms from March. There was nothing there. 

What I had done had completely reversed or reduced or got rid of whatever they said I was a ticking time bomb for and wanted to remove both of my breasts and go through this extensive surgery. I would have these antibiotics and disrupt my gut and put me through more of a disadvantage than I already had if I had done this surgery.  

I just did testing last Monday, and my environmental toxin markers have gone way down. More importantly, my antibody response has gone from my Hashimoto’s. I have no more antibody response.

I went off my medication. I honestly didn’t need to go off my medication. It wasn’t intentional. I ran out. My refill didn’t come in in time. I decided to see what I feel like not taking it. Your body truly has the innate ability to heal itself. If I’m healing and doing all of the work inside, maybe I have healed my thyroid. Sure enough. My thyroid labs aren’t much different than they were when I was on the medication. I feel no different from being off the medication than I did taking the medication. And my antibodies have now been negative for over a year. 

That is pretty much my health journey in the last year and a half with Hashimoto’s and getting to the root cause of probably that and the cancer diagnoses I’ve had. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s an awesome story. That’s great about the QT scan being negative as well as those antibodies coming back negative, not having to take thyroid hormone. You said it’s been a year since your antibodies? 

Dr. Erin: 

I have also been taking LDN. I have been doing that at 4.5mg. I am pretty sure that might have a role in reducing the antibodies and the inflammation in my body. I am still taking that. That is the only medication I do take. 

I believe it was October 2024 that I had no antibodies. Then I tested again here in September, and they’re still negative. 

Dr. Eric: 

How long have you been taking LDN? 

Dr. Erin: 

Since July 2024. 

Dr. Eric: 

If that is the case, is it better if you have to take LDN, which is suppressing thyroid antibodies, or thyroid hormone replacement? We could argue that LDN is a better option because it is preventing further damage to the thyroid. If you take thyroid hormone, it’s not doing anything for the immune system component. 

Dr. Erin: 

I never saw a reduction in the antibodies with taking MP thyroid. The other thing I also do is I don’t eat gluten. That was the first thing I pulled from my diet when I found out I had Hashimoto’s. I’ll eat it every once in a while. I feel like it’s less aggravating to my thyroid than it was. If I used to have a bit, I could feel it. My thyroid felt mad and angry. I didn’t feel good. Now I can tolerate a little bit. 

I still don’t eat it. I don’t like it. We’re human. Sometimes there are instances where there is gluten, and I’m not going to starve. You’re at a family dinner, and you’re not going not to eat because Mom made you pasta with gluten. That’s the other thing I do avoid. 

I still eat dairy. Dairy doesn’t seem to aggravate me. To each their own. Everybody is different. 

Dr. Eric: 

You mentioned an oxidative stress test. Can I ask you about that? 

Dr. Erin: 

There is an oxidative stress panel through Vibrant America. It’s newer. I did that. I haven’t gotten my latest results back yet. It basically said my cells were in a war zone. I was doing a lot of phospholipid health, trying to restore the cellular membranes, so I could restore mitochondrial function that I think I was at a disadvantage for. That’s why I was getting assaulted, and bad things were happening. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s a urine test? 

Dr. Erin: 

Yep. What I hope I can inspire people to see is there is always a why. You don’t get these things because of bad luck. There is always a reason why these things happen in our body. 

One of the things I discovered is non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and glyphosate. I had high glyphosate levels. I still do. They’re not as high. They’re now in the low end of normal. They were really high. Glyphosate is found in most pesticides; Round Up is the most common one. 

This probably was a reason why I got the non-Hodgkins’ lymphoma. I don’t know any other reason why. If it’s found in older men, and I am a 31-year-old woman, why did it happen? I had these levels. My body wasn’t able to get rid of it because of that poor detox pathways I have. Working on that has been able to get some of these toxins out. I thought that was a fascinating correlation, too. 

Dr. Eric: 

I tested for glyphosate. I did an organic acids test, and I had a glyphosate panel in 2016 was the first time. it wasn’t crazy high, but it was there. I did things for supporting detoxification. I did a retest, and it was still there, but it was lower. I can’t say I test everybody, but I don’t know if I have ever seen zero glyphosate levels because it is so widespread. 

Dr. Erin: 

I was going to say most everyone has BPA and glyphosate. Those are the two. My BPA is still high, and my glyphosate is still high, but not as high as it was. I have to continue to do the work is what I’ve learned. I might get to a point where I don’t have to do the work. 

I also have these genetic SNPs, these issues genetically that I can’t do certain things. My body doesn’t do it. It’s how I was born. I probably will still have to work hard for the rest of my life. 

Dr. Eric: 

Do you still do IV glutathione pushes once a week?  

Dr. Erin:

 Yep, I still do once a week. The good thing is my partner is a paramedic. He pokes me. I don’t mind doing them. It’s monotonous, but if it will keep me healthy- 

That’s why I love testing. You see the progress you’ve made. It makes what you’ve been doing so much- You get validation. What I’m doing is working. It doesn’t matter. I don’t mind doing it if I know it’s working. Maybe I can go every other week. 

I took oral glutathione when I was on vacation. It’s okay but not as effective as doing IV glutathione. If that’s what’s going to keep me healthy. I am fortunate enough to be able to do it myself. I’ll continue to do it. 

Dr. Eric: 

You mentioned sauna to help sweat out toxins. Anything else to support your detox pathways? 

Dr. Erin: 

I do coffee enemas every once in a while. I do vibration plates. I do lymphatic massage. I had lymphoma. I had cancer of the lymph node. Your lymphatic system is how we detox anyway, but it’s the only system that doesn’t move. We have to move it. That’s why we always preach moving your body. Manual lymph drainage is good. 

I actually had developed (I still have it; it’s incurable) lymphedema in my right leg from the cancer. I had a tumor by the bladder. Over time, I developed this. It didn’t happen until six years after cancer. I have lymphedema and swelling in my right leg, so I do lymphatic massages to get stuff moving on a manual basis and to help my detox pathways. 

What’s interesting is I started doing those earlier this year perhaps. I took a round of four or five. Then I went on vacation. I was behind on them. I try and go every six weeks now that I’m on a maintenance schedule. I went over two months. I just had one a couple weeks ago, and she goes, “You were pretty stuck.” It goes to show me that these things work. I need to keep up on them. 

Plus I was out of my routine. We were on vacation and traveling. I didn’t have my sauna or vibration plate. I tell that to my patients. If you don’t think that the supplements you’re taking or what you’re doing is working, then stop them. I guarantee you that you will feel different. Yeah, they were working. Sure enough, they said they felt better when taking supplements, or their labs looked better. 

Like I said, it’s validation that what I’m doing is working, so I will continue. I am trying to think what else I do. Mainly a few supplements. I do some detox supplements. I have been doing a lot of gut work, even though I don’t have issues with my bowel movements. Those are healthy. I have been doing a gut healing protocol. I have done parasite cleanses, candida work. Everyone has that to an extent. I have been working on my gut lately and my stress levels. 

Not necessarily stress, but- I posted about this on Instagram. I am not stressed. Yeah, I own a business, and I’m busy, but I’m not stressed. My Oura ring would tell me I am stressed, and I couldn’t figure it out. I was sitting there watching a mindless reality show that isn’t stressful, and it was saying I was stressed. 

This has to do with my healing process. My body is under a lot of stress. It’s trying to heal. I swear within the last month or two, after I have been working on this stuff for over a year, and now the gut stuff, my stress levels are way down. My HRV levels have gone way up. I really feel like I have turned a corner as far as my body’s actually working again, which is really good. 

Dr. Eric: 

HRV, for those who aren’t familiar, is heart rate variability, which is from the Oura ring. 

Dr. Erin: 

Yeah. I used to have readings in the 20s and 30s. I look at my patients’ Oura data all the time. “You have some good HRV. What’s wrong with me?” Now I’m in the 70s. It’s awesome. 

Except the luteal phase. Women, if you have an Oura ring and have crappy readings in the luteal phase, that’s pretty normal, especially right before your period. It’s okay. 

Dr. Eric: 

Good to know. How frequently do you do sauna and the vibration plate when you’re home? 

Dr. Erin: 

Another thing I do is red light, but that goes with everything. I try to do sauna four times a week. There is research that if you do it four times a week for at least 20 minutes, you have a 40% all mortality reduction, which is pretty awesome. We just got a puppy, so my routine has been not normal. 

I go to the gym, come home, turn on my sauna, make my breakfast, do my vibration plate, do the red light in the sauna, take a shower, then do the cold plunge after that. I try and do this four times a week. Sometimes, I try to do a vibration plate every day because it’s only 10 minutes. I have been out of my routine lately.  

Dr. Eric: 

You do a cold plunge four days a week? Sauna, shower, cold plunge? 

Dr. Erin: 

Yep. 

Dr. Eric: 

Okay, cool. I have not done cold plunging yet. I do cold showers, which I know is not the same. One of these days, maybe I’ll be brave enough to do a cold plunge. 

Dr. Erin: 

Unfortunately, in Arizona, we don’t get cold showers because our water is too hot. Maybe in the winter. The cold plunge feels real good here in Arizona. Mine is outside in our patio. It’s good. It’s only two minutes. 

Dr. Eric: 

I was about to ask, I assumed a couple of minutes. 

Dr. Erin: 

Two minutes in the cold plunge. I only keep it at 50. Women don’t need it much colder than that. Not much more than two minutes. Maybe three minutes. I just do two minutes. 11 minutes a week is where the research is. Maybe I’ll throw in an extra day of cold plunge there. I like it. 

Dr. Eric: 

During your health journey with cancer, Hashimoto’s, did you do any functional medicine testing other than oxidative testing? Did you do stool tests or adrenal tests? Did you mainly do oxidative stress?  

Dr. Erin: 

With cancer, no. I didn’t know anything about naturopathic medicine when I was diagnosed with cancer. I met a naturopathic doctor after I had been deemed cancer-free. I didn’t do any functional testing during my diagnosis. 

I have probably done every test out there throughout my eight years of being out of school. I never really did anything about it. I would get the results and say okay. We’re the worst patients. I didn’t do anything about it.

Most recently is when I did all of the environmental toxin tests. I have done an OAT. I have done neurotransmitter testing. I have done heavy metal testing. I have done stool testing. I have done cortisol, awakening response, the four point salivary testing. I have done DUTCH testing. I wanted to do DUTCH testing for my estrogen metabolism for cancer. That’s the urine test for hormones. I just did another stool test, so I am waiting on that. 

Dr. Eric: 

When you treated for parasites, did you treat based on the findings of the stool test? Were the stool tests negative for parasites, and you did a regular parasite cleanse? 

Dr. Erin: 

I did the parasite cleanse because at the place I do my lymphatic massage, he does muscle testing. I went to see him to learn a little bit more on a measurable scale. I tested for parasites through him. And some candida. 

I did the cell core parasite cleanse. Do I notice that I have passed anything? Not necessarily. Did I feel any different? No. I’m sure it did good. If you have a heartbeat, you have a parasite. I don’t recommend everybody going out and doing parasite cleanses without talking to your doctor first. 

Dr. Eric: 

Good advice. You deal a lot with hormones with your patients. What type of testing do you recommend? DUTCH testing? Blood testing to look at hormones? 

Dr. Erin: 

I like it all. I start with blood. The reason I start with blood is because I am looking at the whole person. I can get way more information on blood than I can on pee. 

If I don’t get anywhere with blood testing as far as hormones, which I usually do, I’ll go to urine testing, like a DUTCH test. I just ordered a DUTCH test for a patient who is struggling with her hormones. We have been doing a lot of work and not getting anywhere. Let me see how she is metabolizing, which I can get through DUTCH. I typically do blood because I can get way more information, way more labs. 

Dr. Eric: 

Do you test thyroid in most people? 

Dr. Erin: 

Oh yeah. Hormones, full thyroid panel with antibodies. Adrenal function, like morning cortisol through blood, and a full reproductive hormone panel, in addition to blood sugar, vitamins, cholesterol, iron. 

Dr. Eric: 

You mentioned Dr. Jen. She was on my podcast. Has she been on your podcast yet? 

Dr. Erin: 

No, but I would love for her to be on my podcast. 

Dr. Eric: 

You should reach out to her. She’s great to chat with. I told you about the conference I am going to. She was there last year. She did her book signings. 

Dr. Erin: 

Yeah. Breast cancer is such a thing. I really wish it wasn’t a thing. If anybody is listening that is going through breast cancer or knows someone who has been diagnosed with breast cancer, get her book, The Smart Woman’s Guide to Breast Cancer. I didn’t have breast cancer, but I had DCIS, so I bought it. It made me feel so much better. I went down a rabbit hole with her podcast, Keeping Abreast with Dr. Jen. I just gave it to a patient today. You can learn so much from her. It really just made these light bulbs go off in my brain. 

There is a reason why. All the imaging I had done in 2022 for my breast. In the lumpectomy and the biopsies. Did that play a role in this stuff happening in 2024? Did it? Who knows? Things that make you go hmm. 

It’s unfortunate that nowadays, we truly as a society have to be our own advocates and come armed with questions to our doctors. Is there a better way? You’re afraid to bring it up because they might think you’re nuts. I don’t want to do a mammogram anymore. I am not going to do surgery. All right, well, best of luck to you. You’re an idiot for not doing it, right? That’s the standard of care. We don’t have to abide by the standard of care. It’s your body. You can do whatever you want. 

Dr. Eric: 

You do a lot of things, which is great. For some of the listeners, this might be overwhelming. I don’t know if I can do sauna and cold plunges and vibration plates. 

When you work with someone with Hashimoto’s, let’s say, someone with thyroid autoimmunity, what would you say to start out with? What tips can you give to someone who is new? Should they start out with diet and lifestyle? It’s a good idea to work with a practitioner. I assume you don’t like the first consultation, talking about sauna. Maybe you do. 

What advice would you give someone who was either recently diagnosed or maybe even dealing with it for a long time and decided, “Hey, I want to address the cause of the problem?”  

Dr. Erin: 

I usually start with the basics, the foundations. If those aren’t in play, we have to start there. All of those are in play. I had gone to medical school. The foundations are sleep, hydration, movement, and diet. That is where we’ll start. Sometimes, people have two out of four things dialed in. Maybe they have zero out of four things dialed in. We will dial them in one by one. 

If you are only drinking one glass of water a day, let’s work up to two. Then three. Let’s make a goal. If you’re eating processed foods, let’s replace at least one meal with a homecooked meal. Teach them. 

There is a thing that came out from my naturopathic school, the naturopathic organization about nutrition and how naturopathic doctors get over 155 hours of nutrition in our medical school, whereas medical doctors only get 19 hours. We know what we’re talking about with nutrition. 

We’ll usually start there. Food is medicine. We can get a lot of good medicine from food. Nobody knows how to eat. That’s why we’re such a diabetic pandemic here, and everyone is obese. It’s a mess. We don’t know how to eat. It’s not anybody’s fault. Nobody teaches us how to eat. I’m going to go to McDonald’s and get this happy meal. It’s not food. It’s not good for you.

With diet, it doesn’t have to be hard. Shop around the perimeter of the grocery store. Maybe abide by the clean 15 and dirty dozen. It’s the Environmental Working Group’s lists every spring. They put it out in the summer this year. It’s the top 15 foods that are clean that you can purchase conventional. The dirty dozen are the top 12 foods that are treated with the most pesticides and chemicals, so you want to buy those organic when possible. Abide by that. If you start there, you’re doing something. 

Movement. Start by going for a walk for 10 minutes. You don’t have to do a 10k. Just move your body if you haven’t done movement in a while. 

Sleep. I think sleep is where I start with a lot of my patients. They’re not sleeping well. Your body can’t restore or repair. You will feel like garbage. You won’t have energy. Then you don’t want to eat well or move. If I get you to sleep, then you will have more energy, and you will eat better and want to move.

If those things aren’t dialed in, then sauna, cold plunge, any of that is not going to be helpful anyway. 

Dr. Eric: 

Great advice. I agree. Definitely want to start with the foundations. If someone is eating inflammatory foods, if they’re stressed out all the time, if they’re sedentary, it will be difficult to heal. Not getting sufficient sleep, like you said. Start with the basics. 

Later on, once they do that, maybe they can incorporate some of these other things like red light, sauna, cold plunges. All of these could be great options as well.

Before we wrap things up, anything else that you’d like to share, Dr. Ellis? 

Dr. Erin: 

My best piece of advice would be you know your body best. Don’t stop at no. If you aren’t getting the answer that you deserve and want to hear, keep asking. 

When I was diagnosed with cancer, I had this symptom and this swelling in my groin, and I knew something was wrong. I kept getting dismissed. My doctor said it’s nothing; I was too young to have cancer. It just got worse. Something wasn’t right. Can we get more imaging? Can you send me somewhere? What is going on? 

Finally, we got somewhere. Not the answer I wanted. If that never happened, I wouldn’t be sitting on this podcast with you. Life happens for a reason. 

Your symptoms are messages. Your Check Engine light is going off in your car. Same in your body. Something is not right here. Let’s figure it out. 

You should have energy in the day to do the things you want. You should be sleeping soundly. You should be having daily bowel movements. You shouldn’t have headaches, stomach pain, diarrhea, crappy periods. If those are happening, something is not balanced in the body, so let’s figure it out. You can heal and feel like yourself again. 

Dr. Eric: 

Well said. Where can people find out more about you? I know you have a hormone quiz. Feel free to share. 

Dr. Erin: 

I have a hormone quiz. You can find it on my social media and my website. I am very active on social media. Most active on Instagram, so come find me over there, @Dr.ErinEllis. Give me a follow. I usually shout out all my new followers in the DMs. Social media, website. 

I have a podcast. I am on a break now, but I have 3-4 years, over 200 episodes to watch. I should be back at the beginning of the year. 

Dr. Eric: 

Awesome. This was great. Thanks for coming on, Dr. Erin, sharing your story with both the cancer and the Hashimoto’s healing journey. I found it to be fascinating, and I’m sure the listeners did as well. 

Dr. Erin: 

Hope so. Thanks so much for having me, Dr. Eric. 

Dr. Eric: 

You’re welcome. Thanks again.  

A new study may have just changed how we think about two nutritional supplements that can benefit those with Graves’ disease. In this episode, let’s discuss how this combination may help lower thyroid antibodies, improve symptom control, and even reduce the total dosage of methimazole.  If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode. In this episode, I am going to discuss a recent study on Graves’. This journal article came out in August 2025, a few months ago. It discussed how taking L-carnitine and selenium can be beneficial for Graves’ patients who are taking methimazole. 

Even if you are not taking methimazole, I think this study is important, as it still demonstrates the benefits of combining selenium and L-carnitine. There have been separate studies showing the benefits of selenium and thyroid autoimmunity. There have also been a few studies showing that L-carnitine in larger doses—2,000-4,000mg—can block the entry of thyroid hormone into the cell. In some cases, it can be used as a substitute for antithyroid medication. I am not specifically telling you to use L-carnitine as a substitute. 

This is the first study, I’m pretty sure, that looks at combining selenium and L-carnitine in Graves’ patients. This does involve patients taking methimazole, too, essentially increasing the effectiveness of methimazole. It still is worth exploring the possibility of taking selenium and L-carnitine by itself.

I’ll talk more about this because it’s not like I haven’t been recommending selenium to most of my Graves’ patients. L-carnitine, I can’t say I recommend it across the board. I definitely recommend selenium more frequently, but I have a number of patients who take L-carnitine, too. 

Let’s talk more about the study. Again, I have the study in front of me, which I’ll make sure to include the link. I won’t read the study verbatim. Essentially, the trial asks: Can adding a combination of L-carnitine and selenium to standard methimazole therapy improve outcomes in new Graves’ patients? 

It involved 60 patients with newly diagnosed overt Graves’. They were randomized into two groups, one with methimazole alone and another group with methimazole and a supplement containing L-carnitine and selenium. 

The research is measuring thyroid hormones: free T3, free T4, TSH. It also looked at TRABs. I don’t think specifically the TSIs. You could test the TSIs in a blood test, but you could also test the TRABs. They looked at the TRABs. If you’re not familiar, TSI is thyroid stimulating immunoglobins, which is a type of TSH receptor antibody. 

It also looked at symptom scores for every two months for up to 24 months. Patients also filled out the questionnaires about classic hyperthyroid symptoms, such as increased resting heart rate, tremors, heat intolerance, and irritability. 

Let’s discuss some of the major findings. As far as what did not change significantly, the time for TSH, free T3, and free T4 to normalize was not significantly different between the two groups. In other words, by adding L-carnitine and selenium, it didn’t seem to speed up the normalization of thyroid hormone levels compared just to taking methimazole alone.

What did improve in those that took L-carnitine and selenium along with methimazole? First, the antibodies turned negative sooner, which is great. I mentioned before that there are a lot of people who take just methimazole. Most people are just taking methimazole. Some are taking selenium on their own. It’s not like people have to go full-out taking a natural approach. 

The point is, methimazole is focusing more on the thyroid than the immune system, but there have been a good number of studies showing that selenium can influence the antibodies, which makes sense. It helps to reduce oxidative stress.

It’s not addressing the triggers. If you have other triggers, I could talk more about this. I don’t know of any studies showing that L-carnitine normalizes antibodies. In those taking L-carnitine, selenium, and methimazole, the TRABs turned negative sooner. That suggests the supplement they took may help with the autoimmune component of Graves’. That’s a big finding.

Also, another positive finding is those taking the supplements had a lower methimazole dosage, so they required less methimazole on average. Their total lifetime exposure to methimazole was significantly lower. That is another benefit. 

If someone is on higher amounts of methimazole, let’s say 20mg, which is like a medium dose. 40mg is a higher dose. Perhaps a combination of that methimazole along with L-carnitine and selenium might allow the person to take a lower dose of methimazole. 

Again, it’s not a surprise because L-carnitine has some antithyroid effects by blocking the entry of thyroid hormone into the cell. Selenium can affect positively that autoimmune response. It’s not addressing removing triggers or healing the gut, but it helps to reduce oxidative stress. 

It makes sense that the combination of selenium and L-carnitine along with methimazole could result in less methimazole needed. I wish there was a study of bugleweed with selenium or bugleweed with L-carnitine or maybe all three. That study is not out yet. 

A higher rate of remission is also another benefit. The supplement group had substantially higher frequency of going into remission without needing surgery or radioactive iodine. 

We don’t know the relapse rate. We see that all the time with people who are just on methimazole. Months go by, and then the doctor mentions that the person is in remission. Then they are taken off the methimazole, and then perhaps a few months later, sometimes, longer than a few months, many times, if not most of the time, they will relapse. 

The person could take lower amounts of methimazole, which is always a benefit. Methimazole commonly causes side effects. It also does affect the gut in a negative way. The less methimazole you can take, the better. Better symptom management as well. 

There were some limitations of the study. It was not a blinded study. There was no placebo control. Patients and doctors may have known who was getting the supplements. This can influence symptom reporting or expectations. The symptom questionnaire that was used was not fully validated. The supplement dose and form matters.

It’s also worth mentioning that only 83mcg of selenium was taken, and only 500mg of L-carnitine was taken. I say “only” because I commonly recommend 200mcg of selenium, as do a lot of other practitioners. When it comes to L-carnitine, the other studies show that between 2,000-4,000mg of L-carnitine is what’s needed to block the entry of thyroid hormone into the cell. This study only used 500mg of L-carnitine. It would be interesting if different doses were used, too. 200mcg of selenium along with higher amounts of L-carnitine. 

I also should mention that over the years, I’ve had a lot of people take selenium. The majority of people eventually take selenium. If you just started working with me, I don’t always give it after the first consultation. If I didn’t recommend it right off the bat, usually, I am recommending it by the second consultation. 

L-carnitine, I don’t always recommend. From a symptom management standpoint, I’ve had a lot of success with bugleweed over the years. I typically recommend bugleweed initially. It depends. Some people do take bugleweed along with L-carnitine. Some people switch to L-carnitine after bugleweed doesn’t seem effective.

Even though not everybody takes selenium and L-carnitine in my practice, I have had a lot of people over the years take both. In higher doses, too, than what was used in the study. Again, it doesn’t always result in normalization of the antibodies. It’s something that people can definitely try. Keep your expectations in check. 

Taking selenium and L-carnitine alone, they’re not addressing the underlying cause of the problem. You still want to do everything I talk about on this podcast. Many episodes talk about diet and lifestyle. Looking at other triggers, like infections, environmental toxins/toxicants, mold, heavy metals, microplastics. 

This was encouraging. Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad they have this study. Like I said, it would be amazing if they released a similar study with bugleweed instead of or in combination with L-carnitine. I don’t know if that will get done unless I put it together, which I have never done. I would need some assistance doing that. It would be very interesting to see that combination. 

Just wanted to share this new research study. It is specific to Graves’ patients. If you have another hyperthyroid condition, like toxic multinodular goiter, again, it’s not autoimmune toxic multinodular goiter. Some people with that condition can have an autoimmune component, but typically, they don’t. The L-carnitine might help with thyroid hormone. Of course, a lot of people with toxic multinodular goiter are also told to take methimazole. We wouldn’t be modulating the immune system like this study succeeded in doing. 

I wanted to share this study. I found it interesting. Hope you found it interesting as well. 

Also, I wanted to mention that if you’re dealing with Graves’ or a different hyperthyroid condition, it can feel incredibly lonely. You go online searching for answers. Most of what you find online is about Hashimoto’s. Most of the information is hypothyroidism. Most podcasts, too. This is the only one that has an emphasis on hyperthyroidism and Graves’. 

When you go to your doctor, of course, they’re saying three things: take antithyroid medication, do radioactive iodine, or have surgery. No one explains why you have hyperthyroidism. For those with Graves’, they don’t explain what your antibodies mean. They might test you one time, and it might be a struggle to retest. Could be confusing, overwhelming. At times, it makes you feel like the only one going through this. 

That’s one of the main reasons why I created a new community specifically for Graves’ and those with other types of hyperthyroid conditions that is not on Facebook. No one should have to walk through this alone, confused, unsupported. Inside this group, we focus on answers you can’t find elsewhere as well as give support that can make a big difference.

The name of the group is Healing Graves’ Naturally. Even if you have a different type of hyperthyroid condition, I think you can still benefit from joining.

I do have a hyperthyroid-related group on Facebook. But it is really large, which might sound appealing. It has close to 25,000 members as of recording this. To me, it is overwhelmingly large. I wanted something smaller. I wanted something off of Facebook because Facebook could close my group at any time. 

As far as some of the benefits of this group, which is on a platform called School, it gives hope beyond the standard three options. You’re not going to hear about antithyroid medication, radioactive iodine, or surgery. Not to say others might not bring them up in the group, but the goal is to go beyond those three treatment options with natural root cause approaches. 

Of course, you will get some guidance from someone who’s been there. I have been in your shoes. As you may know, I personally overcame Graves’. I know the fear of the rollercoaster of symptoms. I know what works and what doesn’t work. 

I also talk about my process of the Save My Thyroid method I have been using to help people all over the world. For many years, I have been in remission since 2009. I have been working with other people ever since then.

Evidence-based natural solutions. That is what this episode was about: giving some updated research, practical science-backed strategies, nutrition, lifestyle, functional medicine insights. 

Right now, the group is free. My goal is to help as many people as I can. At the same time, I don’t want it to get as big as Facebook. My plan is it will become a paid group eventually. It won’t be within the next few weeks or months, but it will most likely make the transition to a paid group.

Those who join for free will not have to pay anything. Once you’re in the group, you’re in. It won’t be a massive charge, but you might as well join for free while you can. 

Also, as an incentive to join, you will also get free access to my brand-new Graves’ survival road map training. It’s not just a single video. This is almost like a course. I should call it one. It has eight modules. All you have to do is click a link in the show notes to join the community. You’ll be happy that you did. 

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. As usual, I hope you found this information to be valuable. Look forward to catching you in the next episode.

Recently, I interviewed Dr. Sharon Stills, who has spent over two decades helping women move through perimenopause and menopause with clarity and confidence. We talk about why so many women are misled into avoiding estrogen, why it’s never “too late” to find balance, and how adrenal and thyroid health fit into the bigger hormonal picture. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

I am super excited to chat with Dr. Sharon Stills. We are going to be talking about menopause, hormones. Really excited to have this conversation. 

Let me dive into her impressive bio here. Dr. Sharon Stills is a licensed naturopathic medical doctor and graduate of the Sonoran University. She has spent over two decades transforming women’s health with a special focus on guiding women through perimenopause and menopause. 

Creator of the Pioneering Red Hot Sexy Menopause program and host of the annual Mastering Your Menopause Transition Summit, she combines her expertise in European biological medicine, pro-aging therapies, and bioidentical hormone replacement to help women rediscover vitality with natural methods. 

A respected voice in her field, Dr. Stills has lectured internationally at the Paracelsus Academy; contributed to Women’s Health Network; and served on the boards of the Bioregulatory Medicine Institute and UCLA’s Archive of Healing. 

In 2025, she is on the verge of opening the Lasting Wellness Center in Scottsdale, AZ alongside her son, Dr. Ben Stills, offering advanced diagnostic and therapeutic care for chronic illness and women’s health. Welcome, Dr. Sharon. 

Dr. Sharon Stills: 

Very nice to be here. 

Dr. Eric: 

Very excited to have this conversation. How long have you been focusing on menopause and perimenopause? What led you down this path? I guess your own experience, but I’ll let you dive deeper into your background. 

Dr. Sharon: 

Actually, it wasn’t my own experience surprisingly enough. I went to naturopathic medical school to be a pediatrician. I wasn’t interested in women’s health and hormones. This is back in the late’ 90s. There wasn’t a lot of education we had on women’s health and hormones in naturopathic medical school, which seems surprising. Or maybe it was that I wasn’t focusing on that. I was focusing on pediatrics.

When I opened up my clinic after I graduated, an interesting thing happened. A patient diagnosed with pancreatic stage IV cancer came to my clinic. Then a woman who had just read Suzanne Somers’ book on taking bioidentical hormones while she has breast cancer came to my clinic. These two patients totally changed the course of my practice, my career, my specialties. 

One of my professors said, “Just wake up in the morning, and tell the universe to send you what you can handle, how you can help, and where you can be of service.” I guess the universe had other ideas for me although I still do some pediatrics because who doesn’t love kids? 

This woman who came with Suzanne Somers’ book was like, “I want what she is having. I want these hormones.” I was taken aback because I didn’t realize Suzanne Somers was dabbling in alternative medicine. I just knew her as the actress who played the ditsy blonde in Three’s Company. That’s interesting. I love when people don’t like to stay in their lanes. She was into it. I have an open mind. I decided to read the book. I was like, “Oh wow, actually, she is not so ditsy in real life, and this makes a lot of sense to me, what she’s saying and what she’s doing.” 

At the time, she was working with Dr. Jonathan Wright, who ended up becoming my mentor and who I studied with and learned hormones from. He is the grandfather of bioidentical hormone replacement in the United States. He wrote the first script for Bi-Est. Everyone who uses Bi-Est is 80/20. That’s because of him. A lot of people don’t know who he is nowadays; they don’t give him credit. They don’t know the beginnings of where this all came from and what he saw and how he came up with 80/20, which is the ratio of estriol to estradiol in a Bi-Est cream. 

I started treating her with these hormones. This is all good, but I can make it better because I am a naturopathic physician and have training in European biological medicine. I know the body is a whole terrain, and these hormones need to be in a healthy, happy body. “Sure, I’ll do this for you, as long as we also do your lymph system.” 

The microbiome wasn’t popular back then, but it was in my world because in Europe, we knew all about the microbiome and were talking about it way before it was being talked about here in the States.

I treated her. Her husband sent me flowers. He was super happy that he had his wife back. Thus begun the Dr. Stills husband fan club. 

I looked at myself and thought, Well, one should tell people. She told people. The next thing I knew, I had a lot of menopausal women in my practice wanting hormones. I was at the time in my early 30s. Menopause was not something I was thinking about, but I had extreme hormone dysfunction. I had the worst premenstrual- Some women get PMS two days before their period. They get a headache, bloating, breast tenderness. I am not downplaying that. Although that is common, it is certainly not normal. 

I literally had PMS 2.5 weeks every month. I would get my period. I would bleed and feel like garbage. I would finish my period. I would have five or six days or maybe a week where I felt like a normal human being. Then my PMS would kick in, and I would spend the rest of the month suffering. So bloated. People would ask me when my baby was due. Cravings, breast tenderness, headaches. You name it, I had it. 

Here I was suffering. I am helping all these women who are decades older than me. I’m watching them; they’re aging backwards and feeling amazing. They’re having a good time, and I’m thinking, I need to do something for myself because I can’t in good conscience sit here with horrible hormones and not be practicing what I preach. 

I tweaked what I was doing for them to a cycling woman. I didn’t need the exact same hormones, but I needed lymph support and liver support and gut support and blood sugar support and all the support. I needed progesterone, DHEA, and so forth.

I balanced my hormones and got rid of my horrific PMS, which was like, bye, it’s nice to see you go. So much so that when I went into menopause myself, I was 48 when I was done. I was a little on the earlier side, but it’s an average. 

I never even had a hot flash. I never had any symptoms of menopause because I had what I call pregamed and balanced my hormones a couple of decades prior in my early 30s. I have always loved menopause. It’s been this beautiful time for me. 

When did I start? I started a very long time ago doing this. I have close to 25 years now of experience because I really started doing this right out the gate. 

Dr. Eric: 

All right, that’s awesome. Love what you said about it’s not just you have been taking the bioidentical hormones for a long time, but also supporting the liver, the lymphatics, the gut. You look at the whole body, not just recommending hormones to everybody without addressing root causes. 

Dr. Sharon: 

I actually termed it on the hormones first. I am hormone-forward. A lot of times, I do in my practice get the hormones handled. I know there is a lot of people who are clean the mold, get rid of the parasites, fix the gut. I find if you don’t have your hormones balanced, you just suffer a lot longer, and it’s harder. Our hormones are integrally involved in- 

I remember when I first learned about hormones. Even as a doctor, before I started diving into this, women have hormones, so they can get a period and get pregnant and have a baby. They can have hot flashes when they go through menopause. I never really stopped to think, wow, the hormones are helping regulate the nervous system, the immune system, tight junctions in the gut; they’re supporting bone health, brain health, the cardiovascular system and arterial health. They’re involved in detox and everything. 

The way I work in my office is women, men come in with a laundry list of things that they’re complaining about. If they’re in this perimenopausal/menopausal/postmenopausal range, let’s handle your hormones, and let’s see what’s left. A lot of times, the long laundry list is-

As humans, I like to blame and complain. It’s in my heritage. We complain, but then when we feel good, we forget. A patient will come in, and I’ll give them hormones according to what their testing showed. I’ll follow up with them in four weeks because after four weeks, I find there is big change. “How are you doing? “I’m okay.” “Let’s go through. Is your joint pain still there?” “Gosh, no, I forgot. I don’t have any joint pain anymore. My headaches are gone. I’m sleeping well. I have more energy.” 

I find in this stage of life, hormones can really handle a lot. I’d rather balance the hormones than play whack-a-mole on seven different things. Once we get the hormones balanced, then we can see what is still left. 

I do see joint pain reverse a lot because someone needed estrogen or testosterone or DHEA or cortisol or thyroid. You can also have joint pain because you have bad body mechanics, or you’re eating foods you shouldn’t be eating, or you’re deficient in a nutrient. There are lots of reasons. I’d rather just figure out what are the hormones affecting? Then we can go look. 

Yes, I am testing everyone for their microbiome. I am doing extensive viral testing, extensive bloodwork, extensive gut testing. I am looking at everything. They probably taught you this, too. You need to get your patients to feel better, or they’re not coming back. You get a few chances/weeks. As a society, we are not very patient people. We want quick action. Hormones are very lovely. 

I always say there is no magic bullet to health. I have said that for years. As I started working more and more with hormones, if there was a magic bullet, it could very well be the symphony of properly prescribed hormones. They can really make a huge difference in someone’s life: the way they feel, the way they age, the way they prevent or ward off chronic disease. 

Another thing they taught us in medical school: If someone comes in with an autoimmune disease, let’s say, and they have been sick for 10 years, you have that conversation the first appointment. “You have been sick for 10 years, so I won’t get you better in a week. You need to give me some time to reverse.” 

With hormones, I have women who come to me in their 80s who have been misled and been told, “Hormones cause cancer. You can’t have them. It’s too late.” All this ridiculousness that floats around out there. They have been suffering for decades. 

I finally give them hormones, and often, it’s overnight. We get a phone call the next day. It’s certainly within that two, three, four-week period. I am not saying everything is perfect. We have moved the needle significantly to where they feel like they have their life back again. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s awesome. I definitely want to focus more on some of these myths and misconceptions when it comes to hormones. One you just mentioned is you hit menopause five years or seven years, and after that, you’re not going to benefit anymore from hormones. You just mentioned if an 80-year-old woman walks into your practice, you won’t say, “Hey, you’re past the window. I can’t help you with hormones.” You find that’s not true, obviously, if you are recommending hormones still. 

Dr. Sharon: 

I have women travel to me from literally all over the globe. Part of it is sad that they have to. I just had someone do a second opinion consult the other day who will fly in to see me. She has a laundry list of things bothering her. All these typical hormone things. She was told she can’t take hormones because 20 years ago, she had ovarian cancer. 

Women are withheld hormones for that reason, because they’re too old, which is not true. They come to me because I’m like, “That’s not true.” So many doctors are just not taking the time to get properly educated. 

I had a patient before you who just went to see her pulmonologist. The pulmonologist started screaming at her for being on hormones, saying, “What do you need hormones for? You’re 68 years old.” Ridiculing her. She was so upset. The pulmonologist should really check PubMed and look at the data and see what the data actually says, or stay in her own lane. 

This happens everywhere. Gynecologists’ offices, primary care, oncologists. People are misled about hormones. When I say “people,” it’s mainly women. They suffer. It’s never too late. 

Is it optimal to start supporting your hormone decline when it’s happening? Yeah, definitely. You’re losing bone, volume in your brain, immune function, all these things that I say over and over again. If we can catch it right away, yeah, it’s better. 

But if we have to wait 10 years for whatever reason, it’s still going to help. We can still slow down the aging process. We can still start to reverse things that have happened. It’s never too late. 

I do hot yoga and Bikram says, “It’s never too late.” You could be 90 years old and come to the hot yoga room and start to repair and regenerate your body. It is never too late. 

I have RED. R stands for Reinvent your health. It’s never too late to do that. Obviously, I should know this by now because I quote it, but what is it, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cheer? Obviously, it’s better to prevent or treat earlier. 

I’m a really good example. I started balancing my hormones and paying attention in my early 30s. I never had a hot flash. Most women have had hot flashes. A lot of women have had hot flashes ruin their life, ruin their sleep. That’s because I prevented it. I am very fortunate. This is what I do for a living. 

It’s never too late. To anyone who is listening, if you’re suffering, you do not need to suffer. 

Dr. Eric: 

Going back to perimenopause. True or false: When you’re in perimenopause, you’re not supposed to take estrogen. 

Dr. Sharon: 

True and false, it depends on who you are. As a naturopathic physician, I am very individualized, which often makes a lot more work for me but better outcomes for my patients. I don’t have protocols. I don’t have plans. 

We have been talking about this. We are opening up this huge clinic. My son and I were like, “We should sit down and make the detox plan.” After 15 minutes, we looked at each other and said, “We can’t do this. Different people need different things. They have different constitutions.” 

If I was treating 17 people who have scleroderma, they all have different treatment plans. Sure, there might be some overlap. They might be using DMSO or MSN or whatever. They’re different. You have an autoimmune disease for a different reason than every other person. There are emotional components, toxic components, nutritional components, etc.

When it comes to menopause, perimenopause, it is not a disease. It is a transition. It is a natural thing. When women are postmenopausal, it’s more like, “Yeah, they all need estrogen.” There are always little unicorns, which is why we test. 

I had a woman the other day who was still making testosterone. She was in her early 70s. “Go, you!” She eats a healthy diet. She exercises. That’s few and far between. 

In perimenopause, your hormones are at Disneyland riding the rollercoaster. Some women need estrogen. Some women don’t. My experience is that women either lose their estrogen or progesterone, and they produce testosterone longer. Or they lose their testosterone first and produce progesterone and estrogen. That’s what I see from looking at thousands of tests all day long. 

Dr. Eric: 

I brought that up because someone on the podcast said that perimenopausal women shouldn’t take estrogen because of those peaks and valleys. They might be in a valley, but then if they’re on estrogen and reach that peak, they might be in an estrogen dominant state.  

Dr. Sharon: 

Estrogen dominance is so played out. You can be estrogen dominant because you don’t have enough progesterone. I tell women all the time, “You need estrogen. You’re also estrogen dominant.” It’s a relative thing. You can be estrogen dominant in response to your progesterone. Yes, you can be estrogen dominant because you’re not clearing your estrogen or because you’re getting xenoestrogens, which are exogenous from the outside. There is a lot of toxicity. There is a lot of estrogen-like plastics and fertilizers, etc. 

You have to understand your body. I have some women in perimenopause who take estrogen one week of the month because that’s when they need it. Some women need it all month long. Some women need a little bit. Some women just need estriol. You can never make a blanket statement like that because then you are not paying attention to your patients. 

Dr. Eric: 

Makes sense. It’s great to get different perspectives. 

Dr. Sharon: 

I get very heated about this. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s okay. I have another true/false question. I think I know the answer because I have done my research and listened to you on other podcasts in preparation. Still, I like to ask in case other people haven’t heard. True/false: You need healthy adrenals in order to have healthy sex hormones. 

Dr. Sharon: 

Everyone says you don’t need to take hormones because when you go through perimenopause, your adrenals will take over. Why take hormones because your adrenals will do the job? 

Now, your adrenals are probably not going to be healthy by the time you go through perimenopause. You are alive on the earth, and you tell me someone who doesn’t have stress or someone who doesn’t know how to deal with their stress. 

Yes, there is a few urban monks out there, living among us. For the most part, by the time we get to menopause, perimenopause, our adrenals are SOS, help me, help me. There is a big misconception that everyone has high cortisol, and high cortisol is ruining your life.

I test cortisol. I test it in the 24 urine. I test it in saliva. I test it all the time. In this age range, most women and men have low cortisol. They don’t have a rhythm. They don’t have a cortisol awakening response. They’re high at night when they should be low. They’re in the basement all day long. Maybe they get their second wind. 

Do you need to have healthy adrenals? Yeah, always paying close attention to the adrenals. The adrenals are important for inflammation, sleep/wake cycle, mood regulation, gut regulation, immune regulation. They play a role. To me, they’re important hormones, but they’re side by side. 

There are unicorns. Ther are some women whose adrenals are surprisingly okay. You still have to look at their mitochondria, neurotransmitters, and other things. 

What I say most often, in the 90th percentile of everyone I look at, is their adrenals need support. They might need to be toned down at night. The morning, the noon levels are super low. It’s like when you’re post-menopausal, the adrenals, even if they’re perfect, won’t put out what the ovaries are putting out. Even if you have good functioning adrenals, maybe you will get to a postmenopausal state of hormone production. That is not going to give you symptom relief, and that is not going to give you the protection and prevention. To me, both of them are equally important. Obviously, I don’t want anyone suffering. You shouldn’t have to deal with symptoms.

 The other part of protection and prevention against cancer and dementia and Alzheimer’s and autoimmunity and osteoporosis and cardiovascular disease, the biggest killer of women. Hormones are the biggest thing you can do to hedge your bet to ward off chronic illness. It’s not like fix your adrenals and forget about your hormones. To me, we’re doing both. 

Dr. Eric: 

You can look at it from this perspective, too. If a woman is postmenopausal, so they have really low estrogen levels and are experiencing those hot flashes and night sweats. That itself is very stressful. It would be very difficult to say to that woman, “Just focus on managing stress and optimizing your adrenals” when those symptoms are causing a lot of stress by themselves. 

Dr. Sharon: 

Exactly. When we have hot flashes, that is our brain saying, “There is low estrogen.” There are women who say, “I just have a real good mindset, so I don’t care about my hot flashes. I just say they’re power surges, and I’m a wise woman now.” You could be a wise woman without hot flashes. Symptoms are signs from your body, “Hello? There is something going on here. I need you to pay attention.” That’s why we have symptoms. It’s our body’s way of talking to us. 

There are a lot of things you can eat your way out of, you can move your body out of, you can sleep your way out of, you can meditate your way out of to improve your health. When it comes to your hormone tank being empty, you can’t do it. You have to fill the tank with hormones. All those other things, they might nudge you a little. I see this. I have a lot of clinical experience. I have been doing this for 25 years. 

There is that other myth, “I am going to have a natural menopause, so I won’t take hormones. But I will take Vitamin E and flaxseed and maca and black cohosh.” We have decided herbs are okay, but bioidentical hormones are not, even though that is the root cause, and that’s what we’re missing. We are not deficient in maca. We are deficient in estrogen, progesterone, DHEA, pregnenolone, or whatever. 

I see a lot of these women. Maybe they’re feeling a little better. Then they come see me, and I put them on hormones. I hear the same thing all the time. “I wasted five years of my life. I feel so good now. I was suffering. I don’t know why I did that.” Sometimes, we get in our own way. We get on our little soapboxes. 

I’m super natural. I practice what I preach. I really walk my walk. I have to. I was very sick as a kid. If I don’t live what I preach, I wouldn’t be doing the things I’d be doing. I’d be lying on the couch. 

We talk a lot about root cause medicine. The root cause of menopause is hormones. I always kid around that the ovaries are like, “That looks nice. We are going to hang a hammock and walk to the beach. We’re retiring. See ya. We’re done.” That is the root cause. The ovaries are not putting out your hormones anymore. We didn’t used to live more than half our lives postmenopausal. It wasn’t that big a deal for our ancestors. We can live. 

I plan to live until 130. We are biochemically designed to live to 120, I think. Maybe it’s upped a little. I added on 10 years when I started doing ProLon and fasting and inducing autophagy. I get another 10 years for this. 

If you look at women who are on hormones and are in their 80s, versus if you look at women who aren’t, it’s drastic. Women who aren’t on hormones are old. Women who are on hormones are going on motorcycle rides or going sailing. They’re living life. They’re sharp; they’re strong. They’re having sex. They’re sleeping. They’re excited. They’re passionate. We really need to change the whole conversation, the whole psyche of society of what it means to age. 

Dr. Eric: 

A lot of what you said makes sense. I think some of it also is fear. Some of it is certainly, “I want to do everything naturally and don’t want to take hormones.” But then there is also another myth that taking progesterone is safe, but taking estrogen increases the risk of cancer. 

Dr. Sharon: 

That’s not true.

Dr. Eric: 

Especially bioidentical estrogen. If you’re dosing properly. Again, you’re the expert. Let’s talk about that. That is a fear of a lot of people. “I don’t want to take estrogen because it can cause cancer.”

Dr. Sharon: 

In the early 2000s, which is the study that freaked everyone out and ripped hormones away from these generations of women who were on hormones because they said it increased your risk of cancer. It was a really poorly designed study. It was even worse poorly interpreted. It’s now been debunked. 

Even from that study, the women in the estrogen-only arm had less breast cancer. They were taking synthetic estrogen, which I would never recommend. Even the women who are taking Premarin, pregnant horse urine, which has DNA damaging estrogens in it that don’t belong in a human body, they even had a reduction in cancer. 

Where this came from, it was the women who were taking estrogen and progestins, which is the synthetic type of progesterone. I never recommend, even with that, you still shouldn’t take horse estrogen. Still not a good idea to put that in your body. 

When we’re talking about bioidentical, we’re talking about naturally compounded, identical to what your body produces. When it gets to the cellular receptor site, the cell’s like, “Oh, I recognize this. I know what this is. This is estrogen.” 

To say that estrogen causes cancer is such a lazy medicine. There are different kinds of estrogens. Estrone, which is E1, is inflammatory because it hits the alpha receptors, and it does cause growth. Yes, estrone uncontrolled, unbalanced, imbalanced, not protected with progesterone, without DHEA, without testosterone, without proper thyroid hormone and cortisol, yes, that can be a factor. Cancer is never a one cause thing. It’s multi-factorial, why we grow a tumor in our terrain. 

Estriol, which is E3, is the beta receptors. It’s very anti-inflammatory. I use it to treat active cancer. 2-methoxyestradiol, which is an estrogen metabolite from estradiol, very anti-cancer, anti-angiogenic. They would love to make a pharmaceutical out of it if they can figure it out because they can make lots of money. That’s what the pharmacy companies do.

There are different kinds of estrogens. If you understand estrogen as an umbrella, just like if a husband and wife have eight kids, they’re not all the same. They all have different personalities. It’s the same with estrogen. Yes, some are more inflammatory, like 4 hydroxy estrone, which is a metabolite that is known to cause DNA damage. There are some, like testosterone which is anti-cancer; DHEA is anti-cancer; progesterone. It’s the symphony. 

What I find is women who end up with cancer from a hormonal perspective, it’s because they’re not on hormones, and their hormones aren’t balanced or are depleted. My experience is totally the opposite. 

Dr. Eric: 

When it comes to testing, a lot of practitioners these days do dried urine testing. Let’s talk about how you test the hormones. 

Dr. Sharon: 

How I test is with a 24-hour wet urine, which is a collection of all your urine over 24 hours. 

The reason why dried urine testing was created was because they decided it would be easier to market. They didn’t think women could do hard things like pee in a bucket for 24 hours. They came up with this “Let’s have them dry it. Let’s not have them collect. Let’s have them do four samples.” You need to get the whole 24-hour gestalt of what is going on because there are ebbs and flows. There is a circadian rhythm happening. A lot of mistakes are made when collecting dry urine. It doesn’t give you the whole story.

When we compare them side by side, we see that the test results are very inaccurate. Women bring them to me, and I won’t prescribe off of them or give them the time of day because I want accurate information. Dried urine has good PR. They made their mark. 

A lot of doctors who really understand hormones are in the clinic all day. We’re not out there on Instagram, influencing. We’re seeing patients. We’re in the clinic. We’re in the trenches. We don’t have time to fight against what the ethos is saying in society. It’s sad that this happened. 

I have been doing 24-hour wet urine testing since I was in medical school in the ‘90s. Dried urine testing wasn’t even a thing then. 

It really is the gold standard. A lot of people who do blood never look at the metabolites, never see the breakdown. Estriol, which is E3, has a very short half-life. You can’t really see it in the blood. It’s not easily measured in serum. 

The word on the street is estriol doesn’t matter. That’s crazy. Word that estriol is dangerous, and you don’t need it, which is totally absurd. 

Everyone talks about estradiol as the strongest, the only one that matters. Estradiol, estradiol, estradiol. When you get 24-hour urine testing, you see estriol in healthy women, postmenopausal, premenopausal, perimenopausal. A lot of them will produce more estriol than estradiol. That’s really the ratio we want to be in. 

If you can only see what you’re looking at, if you don’t know where to look, you don’t always get to see the truth. 

Dr. Eric: 

Is that testosterone, too? 24-hour urine? 

Dr. Sharon: 

Yes. I check all the estrogens, all the metabolites, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA. I test glucocorticoids. You have cortisol and cortisone storage form and metabolites. That’s helpful, but it doesn’t show you the circadian rhythm.

I always make patients do a 24-hour saliva test because I can see in a 24-hour wet urine, “Oh yeah, you’re not producing a lot,” or “You’re overproducing,” but it doesn’t tell me when. 

When it comes to adrenal health, the when is really important. We want to have that nice ski slope. We want to have that nice circadian rhythm. We are also looking at free thyroid hormones. We look at melatonin, oxytocin, growth hormone, nitric oxide levels. We look at a full symphony. Doesn’t mean that I don’t go to the blood to check SHBG and DHT and a gazillion other levels to look at overall health. Parathyroid hormone, vitamin D. There are certain things you need to go to the blood for. 

Dr. Eric: 

Regular thyroid, too? Do you look at regular thyroid in the blood, like TSH, free T3, free T4? 

Dr. Sharon: 

Yeah, the 24-hour urine just shows free T3 and free T4, but it doesn’t show the antibodies or TSH or reverse T3. Reverse T3 really helps guide what I’m going to prescribe, if they’re going to be T3 only or a compound. 

When I do a urine, I can say, “Your T3 is looking low.” I can look at their symptoms. “You’re definitely going to need thyroid, but let’s get some stuff in your blood and see if your reverse T3 is too high. Do you not want to get T4 because you are just going to convert it to reverse T3 anyway? If your antibodies are elevated, well now, we probably need to support your thyroid still if it’s been damaged. Now we need to figure out why your immune system is attacking your thyroid.” 

Dr. Eric: 

Before we wrap up, I want to ask you about castor oil packs. It’s such a hot topic. I listened to another podcast you were on, where you raved about castor oil packs. 

Dr. Sharon: 

I love castor oil packs. I have been prescribing those for 25 years, too. We do a computerized regulation thermography, which is a machine from Germany, to look at regulation of all your organs and your teeth. It’s one of the only tools available that can diagnose if your lymph system is congested. News flash: most people’s are. 

Castor oil is cheap. It’s easy to do. It’s empowering because you can do it yourself. It’s nurturing. It makes you sit down and take care of yourself, which a lot of women have a hard time doing or don’t think they have time to do. It helps drain. It helps detox. 

You can do them over your liver, your thyroid, your breasts. I have people mummy up, where they do it from here to your pubic bone, depending on what I see in the thermography. 

I’m really old school. I know there are different ways to do castor oil, but castor oil packs were from Edgar Casey, who was in the early 1900s a medical medium. He was a doctor, but he channeled different treatments. Castor oil packs is one of the things that he channeled, and he has a clinic in Virginia Beach. He is no longer with us. Heritage House is his company that sells his remedies. His work is still around. The most popular is castor oil. 

I am real old school. If he is the one who brought it to us, we should probably do it the way he says to do it. 

I make patients heat the castor oil, get a pack, put hot water bottle or low EMF dry heating pad, lay with it for 45 minutes. Let it drive it in, rather than just rub some castor oil on and call it a day. 

The reason why I do that is it’s what I see in my thermography scan. I see patients who, when they take the time to do that, we see flow and clearing and less toxins than if you’re just rubbing some on.  

Dr. Eric: 

Great. You actually can compare the before and after with the thermography and see those changes. 

Dr. Sharon: 

I’ll have women say, “I’ve been doing it for two years.” “You lit up like a Christmas tree, so it’s not working.” Then we’ll do it old school and check. Now, things are moving. 

Dr. Eric: 

All right. That’s pretty cool. I’m glad I asked about that. Thank you. This was great. This was a lot of information packed in a short period of time. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts on hormones and testing for hormones and finishing up with the castor oil packs. 

Dr. Sharon, where can people find out more about you? 

Dr. Sharon: 

We have our new clinic, Lasting Wellness Center, in Scottsdale, which we will have LastingWellnessCenter.com. We are in the middle of building it out. 

DrStills.com has been my website for 25 years. That’s always a good place.

If you sign up for my newsletter, that’s the one place. I keep swearing I’m going to become consistent on Instagram. I don’t know, I go in and out because I get busy, and I like to be present in my life. I don’t always want to be holding a camera. 

We do communicate to my community through my email list. We have a very big community. We are very good about communicating through email. That’s a good place if you want to know what’s going on.

Very soon, I will be at Lasting Wellness Center. We have a huge clinic, 7,000 square feet. We have all my diagnostics and therapeutics I have collected from Europe over the years. Opening a clinic is like giving birth to a dozen babies. I will be there. I will be busy getting that all. I really wanted to have a place where people could come and heal. 

People are very sick. Unfortunately, they’re getting sicker. I wanted them to have a place to come get EBU and hypoxia training and oxygen and hydrogen and all the tools. Sometimes, when we’re really sick, we need to be somewhere and be held and be handled and be nurtured and have therapeutics done, so our body can heal. That’s where I’ll be. 

Dr. Eric: 

All right, that sounds amazing. One day, I will need to visit when it’s open, take a tour. 

Dr. Sharon: 

Yes please. Come to our grand opening. 

Dr. Eric: 

Thanks, Dr. Sharon. Appreciate you taking the time to chat about hormones. 

Dr. Sharon: 

Thank you. Always a pleasure. 

Recently, I interviewed Linda, who faced sudden double vision and eye changes that no one could explain at first. What began as mild symptoms quickly turned into Thyroid Eye Disease (TED), forcing her to make tough decisions on when to move beyond homeopathic care and consider Tepezza. We talk about what finally made a difference, what didn’t, and how she kept her immune system and hope strong through it all. If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

Welcome to another Save My Thyroid health audit. I am chatting with Linda here. Very excited to have this conversation. How are you doing today, Linda? 

Linda:

I’m doing well, Eric. 

Dr. Eric: 

You were diagnosed with Graves’ in May 2023. We will talk about some of your Graves’ journey and your thyroid eye disease (TED). Quick question: How did you discover me? 

Linda: 

I wish I knew now. I am always looking on the internet for resources and opportunities. I saw your website and thought it looked helpful and interesting. I subscribed to the podcast, and I began to read the things that you posted. I got your first book, which was really so helpful. 

Dr. Eric: 

Wonderful, thank you for listening and reading. I do appreciate that. 

History of Graves’ that started a little over two years ago. You dealt with double vision. You had Tepezza, which I’d like to talk about. You saw a naturopath, who tried some things. If you could take a few minutes and give a little bit of your backstory, so everyone can hear some of the things you’ve tried. 

Linda: 

My symptoms began in January 2023. The way the health care system works, I didn’t get my endocrinologist appointment for four months. They were completely willing to let me be untreated. 

Because of that, I decided to go to a naturopath I had worked with years ago when I had an autoimmune flare, is what she called it. She immediately did a food sensitivity test. Within two weeks, many of the symptoms had dissipated, which was helpful since the western medical model was they put me on a beta blocker because they didn’t want me to have the thyroid storm? 

Dr. Eric: 

The thyroid storm, yes. 

Linda: 

That was all I had to help me stay healthy. I feel like an autoimmune illness came after a series of very stressful events that I handled as best I could, but I realize I was not in a good place emotionally, spiritually. Physically, I was fine. In hindsight, I realize that was what set me off in that.

The first symptom I had was double vision. I am a big tennis player, and I wasn’t seeing the ball well. I didn’t understand what was going on. I went to my optometrist who said there was nothing wrong with my eyes. Then I went to my regular medical doctor who did some initial tests and said I was tracking for hyperthyroidism. 

Dr. Eric: 

Double vision you had before you were diagnosed with Graves’? 

Linda: 

Yes. No one said anything about TED for nine months, even though my primary, constant, and current symptom is double vision. 

Dr. Eric: 

Okay. Did you have other eye symptoms? Did you have bulging? 

Linda: 

I did begin to get a little bit of bulging after a year and a half, which is what led me to consider Tepezza. 

Dr. Eric: 

Prior to going through the Tepezza, that was when you received some other treatments, like the homeopathy and IV ozone? 

Linda: 

Yes, that’s right. My naturopath had very good results with homeopathic drops, so I was on those for maybe nine months. There was no resolution of the double vision, so she suggested these oxygen infusions. 

After the first one, the double vision did go away, but it came back. I did a series of them, and it did not- Some of my antibodies also went down. They hit a plateau, where it wasn’t working.

She also did a heavy metal test. Years and years ago, when I had some high antibodies, she did the heavy metal testing and did a detox program, and the antibodies went down. We also did that, and I tested high for lead. I don’t know why lead somehow seems to find its way into my body, despite all my efforts. We did go through one of the detoxes. 

It’s all very expensive. I used to have a health HSA, but I don’t have one anymore. I had to constantly be thinking about how much I could spend. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah, I get it. When I dealt with chronic Lyme in 2018, I also went the IV ozone route and had a few dozen sessions. Definitely pricey. I had that combined with the UV light. I do think it helped. 

In my situation, I don’t know if I absolutely needed that because it’s not getting rid of Lyme. I had Lyme and bartonella. It’s just helping with the immune system. Like you said, it can be pricey in general, seeing naturopaths, functional medicine practitioners like myself. 

You gave it a try. The homeopathy you did for nine months, and you didn’t see much progress, so you switched to IV ozone. Didn’t seem like it helped much with the double vision outside of the first visit, but it helped with the antibodies. The heavy metal testing as well. Did some detox protocols to help with lead.

About a year and a half later, after dealing with double vision, you did Tepezza. It’s eight infusions three weeks apart, correct? You went through one of those rounds? Did it help at all? 

Linda: 

Yes. It did. I can visually, for people who can see, my double vision kept getting worse and worse. I would change the prescription and order another pair of glasses from Zenni because I had ordered my first ones through my optometrist. It was so expensive, but it really helped. 

Then I found out on my own through my research about prism glasses. None of my caregivers said anything about prism glasses as an option. My optometrist said it could help, but my eyes will change. They kept changing, and I kept changing the prescription. That did help immensely to get rid of the double vision. It was getting worse. 

The Tepezza was the last resort. Even my ophthalmologist had seen a lot of symptoms. She was a little hesitant. She said I could stop any time I wanted. She said I could even lower the dose. I felt some agency going into the process. 

It did help. All the inflammation in my eyes went away. It was very mild bulging, but everybody said my eyes looked so much better. And the double vision got less. In other words, when I wake up in the morning, I have a pair I put on. The morning is always difficult. For the first hour, the double vision is the worst. After an hour, it resolves. Then I wear the glasses that have the least amount of prism in them. It did help with it but did not eliminate it. There are times during the day where it just goes away. 

Dr. Eric: 

I haven’t had a lot of patients go through Tepezza, but I’ve had a few. It does seem to work well with bulging. The double vision, depends. Some people, it doesn’t seem like it does much. With you, it sounds like it helped but didn’t get rid of it completely. With the bulging, the inflammation, it greatly helped. 

There were some side effects? 

Linda: 

I had the best experience I could have had. I had a friend who had just horrible cramping at night. What I did was get some compression socks, and I would wear them after each treatment for 2-3 days. Once in a while, I had pretty light cramping that went away with rubbing my calf, which was completely no big deal.

The other side effect is my nails became extremely brittle. Even though I stopped in March, another ophthalmologist said it’s still in my system. Give it some time. I’m giving it some time. That was it. Those are very doable side effects given what I’ve heard from other people. 

Dr. Eric: 

Agreed. I had one male patient who temporarily lost his hearing for a few months. 

Linda: 

I was terrified of the hearing loss. 

Dr. Eric: 

It depends on the person. I heard the numbers. I don’t know how accurate, but 10%. You could look at it either way. 90% won’t get hearing loss. To me, 10% is still a large enough number where 1/10, that’s not good. The ringing in the ears, the tinnitus, same thing. 

It sounds like it worked well. Minimal side effects. I’m guessing if you had to do it all again, you would? You don’t regret the Tepezza experience? 

Linda: 

In hindsight, I would have done it sooner. I wanted to see if there was any way not to do it. Western medicine has its place. All my life, I have always done my best to avoid it. Honestly, with this disease, it’s the first time I’ve ever been on medication my whole life, which I feel grateful for. 

Dr. Eric: 

That’s great. A bummer you had to take Tepezza, but there is a time and place for it. 

When I dealt with Graves’, I was able to avoid antithyroid medication, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a time and place for methimazole or PTU. Same thing with Tepezza. I’ve had some people where it made a huge difference, especially with the bulging. 

If you could do without it, great. It’s not like you didn’t give it a try. You tried homeopathy, the IV ozone, diet and lifestyle changes. You can’t regret and say, “I didn’t try not to get it. I didn’t try to avoid it” because you did. You ended up getting it, and it helped with minimal side effects, so that’s great.

What current challenges if any are you having then? The eyes are still not perfect. Also, the antibodies are continuing to go down? What do you want to further improve? 

Linda: 

The antibodies have been- I did take the methimazole for a year and a half, I think. After I read your book, the message I got very clearly was, “It will deal with the symptoms. It will not fix it.” I was already on a very low dose. I decided to stop. I did. 

I felt better in the mornings. I just felt a little more energized, and then I kept testing. The three numbers had been in normal range for six months, since I have been off the meds. I think I have two that are now in normal range. They tested four different numbers. Two are still high. It has been a very slow- They’re all going down. Even the two that are still very high are going down. That’s really the main concern, is to get those antibodies down into normal range, with the hopes that will address the double vision. 

Dr. Eric: 

Well, on the application, you did put that you have elevated TPO antibodies and TG antibodies. You also had TSIs. How are they looking? 

Linda: 

They went down. They got into normal range around January of this year. 

Dr. Eric: 

Okay, that’s awesome. Usually, the TSI are the ones more closely associated with Graves’. TPO antibodies are commonly found in both Hashimoto’s and Graves’, usually more closely associated with Hashimoto’s. TG antibodies are more Hashimoto’s antibodies. It’s pretty common to have antibodies for both Graves’ and Hashimoto’s.

It’s great that TSI is better. Hopefully, those other antibodies continue to go down. It sounds like you’re doing some great things. 

Do you have any questions here? Do you feel by reading my book, listening to the podcast, you know what to do from this point forward? Do you feel like you’re on a good path? 

Linda: 

Yeah, I do all the things you talked about. I made sure to test Vitamin D, and it was great. A lot of the things you discussed in the book in terms of testing. I asked my regular medical doctor, who is wonderful. She is one of those people who believes in all different kinds of healing and treatment. if I say, “Hey, could you test me for this? Could you give me a referral for that?” she does everything she can to support my health in that way.

My naturopath had wanted me to test for diabetes. I tested the cortisol. That’s the other thing you had suggested. My naturopath had done it years ago, which came in normal as well. Everything you talked about in the book that I hadn’t been doing, I found ways to test for what was there or add some more supplements. I looked at the supplements you have for the eyes. 

Dr. Eric: 

The TED Bundle? 

Linda: 

Yeah. I was already taking two of them, so I bought the immune one, I believe. 

Dr. Eric: 

SMT Immune? 

Linda: 

Yes. The only issue at this point is my eyes and eye health. What else can I do? I am a believer that you do whatever you can, and your health is the most important thing. That should be arriving soon. I’ll add that and see if it’s helpful. 

Dr. Eric: 

Keep me posted. 

Linda: 

I will. Sorry I didn’t find your book a year and a half earlier. I did find it, and that’s what matters. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah. I wish you did, too, but it’s great that you found it. Earlier would have been better, but I’m glad you eventually found it. 

You’re looking good. I have been working with Graves’ patients for 16 years. Many times, it’s really obvious the TED, when zooming with them. I didn’t see you before Tepezza, but it sounds like it made a big difference. I can’t say you looked better than you did previously, but you look really good. Hopefully, you’ll continue to improve. Sounds like you did some great things.

I wanted to have this conversation to- I’ve had one or two audits talk about TED. Not sure if I’ve had anybody who has done Tepezza. The double vision, talking about the prisms. Anything that could be helpful. The bulging is bad enough. Sometimes, the natural approach does help with that, but not always. If it doesn’t, then Tepezza can be an option to consider. 

With the double vision also, talking about the prisms, they seem like they were a game changer, and nobody else mentioned that to you. There might be others dealing with double vision, who are looking to get surgery or something else. There is a time and place for that. I wanted to chat with you about your experience. 

Some people might not be happy because we spoke about Tepezza and other things. Of course, my approach is to try to do everything that I can naturally. Again, there is a time and place for conventional medicine or medical intervention. 

Thank you so much, Linda, for this conversation. You have made some great progress. Definitely keep me posted with that TED Bundle to let me know. Hopefully, you see some further improvements in your eyes. 

Linda: 

Thank you so much for everything you do and everything I’ve learned. 

Dr. Eric: 

Thank you. Thanks, everyone for tuning in. Hope those who are dealing with TED, whether it’s bulging or double vision, found this to be helpful. I’ve helped a lot of people over the years with TED. It is more of an immune system condition. Like I said, I’d be lying if I said 100% of people responded to the natural approach. There is a time and place for other options. Thanks for tuning in. Everyone, have an awesome rest of your day. 

Recently, I interviewed Bria Gadd also known as The Period Whisperer, who is a Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner, holistic health coach, and certified personal trainer. We talked about her own perimenopause journey and the lessons that shaped her work from understanding health debt to managing stress and supporting gut health. We also discuss metabolic typing, including the concept of “oxidizers” how your body’s rate of turning food into fuel can influence whether you thrive on higher-protein or higher-carbohydrate foods.  If you would prefer to listen to the interview you can access it by Clicking Here.

Dr. Eric Osansky: 

I am very excited to chat with Bria Gadd, as we are going to talk about hormone imbalances, something that pretty much applies to everyone. At one time or another, I think many, if not most, of us deal with hormone imbalances, especially Bria’s and my clientele. Let me go over Bria’s short but sweet bio here. 

Bria Gadd is a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, holistic health coach, and certified personal trainer, who specializes in female hormones, helping women with weight release and energy gain in pre- and post-menopause, and finding clarity in hormonal chaos. Her podcast The Period Whisperer is a top 1% wellness podcast in the world. With an Instagram following of over 17,000, Bria has been featured in Fox News, Women’s Health, and top women’s podcasts such as The Midlife Makeover Show, to name one. Welcome, Bria. 

Bria Gadd: 

Thank you so much, Dr. Eric. I am so happy to be here. I really appreciate it. I love your show. I hope everyone listening, who I’m sure have been listening for a while, leaves you a good review because I think the content you share is so valuable. 

Dr. Eric: 

Same with yours. I have listened to yours as well. I definitely recommend listening to The Period Whisperer. She has some great information to share. My interview is on there, too. 

Bria: 

Yeah, go listen to it. It was a really good one.

Dr. Eric: 

Let’s dive into your background. How did you start doing what you do now? How did you become The Period Whisperer? 

Bria: 

I love it. I will try to summarize this for everyone. I got into nutrition and fitness as a nutrition coach and fitness trainer in my late 20s when I was having babies and trying to find a way to feel good and also do something from home. That was a big driver for me. That was where I really fell in love with health and working with women specifically on finding time in their life to prioritize themselves.

Around the age of 37, I noticed a shift in my clients. A lot of my clients were around my same age box, which is pretty common. First, I started to notice shifts in them not getting the same results, not having the same energy, maybe having some actual cycle issues with their menstruation, fatigue, things like that. 

I remember thinking, what is going on? All of a sudden, it happened to me. I was like, I don’t have everything figured out. I’m a mom. There is a lot to figure out in life. I thought I had fitness and nutrition sorted. It started as a low-grade fatigue and then major energy drops, changes in my cycle, digestive issues. All of those things should have had me at least get checked out. 

But it was my sleep that went. I have always been a super sleeper. Suddenly, I started to feel like I was waking up every night in a sweat. All the things that come with that, what I call undeserved weight gain, where you ‘re not changing anything, but it’s changing. It didn’t make sense to me.

I went to my healthcare practitioner and had my bloodwork done and asked all the questions. She was great, but in the end, she said, “Bria, you’re the picture of health.” I remember thinking, if this is the picture of health, and I’m 37, this sucks. I don’t think I can do this. It was a pretty dark moment. I knew I was missing something here.

I am almost 44 now. Seven years ago, nobody knew what perimenopause was. I had never heard of it before. These days, you can’t open Instagram without seeing something about hormones or perimenopause or menopause, which is great in many ways and overwhelming in others. 

That was a real pivoting change for me. I have to better understand what’s happening. Because of my cycle changes specifically, let’s start with hormones. I learned so much better understanding with functional health as opposed to that physical health, what our doctors look at. Really what was within my control and the lack of understanding and education in this area for women. 

That pivoted my career and my education to specialize in this area and help women understand what’s happening in their body and know what they can control and what they can do to get the support that they need. 

Dr. Eric: 

That is awesome. Thank you for sharing. Are you sleeping better these days then? 

Bria: 

Yes. I feel better now in my 40s than I did in my 20s. Sleep is absolutely much better. You know it’s so important. 

Dr. Eric: 

Definitely for overall health. 

Why do so many women have hormone imbalances? I’ll just start with that simple question, but not so simple answer. 

Bria: 

What I have seen in my practice and my own journey, pretty much all hormone imbalances stem from something I like to call health debt. Health debt in my mind is when basically the energy supply of your body is no longer meeting the energy demands of your body. That is when we really start to see the body compensate by pulling energy from different systems, and shut down non-essential personnel in the name of survival of the body. That is when we see shutting down of the reproductive hormones a little bit more. Just close and conserves. 

When we’re in this health debt, we have to look at where we’re coming from, to answer that question of hormone imbalances. It certainly comes from the fact that we’re inundated by stressors more and more in our life these days. Our environmental stressors, food stressors. 

Also, we can get thrown into this health debt if we’re having something going on in the gut. If we’re not breaking down, absorbing our nutrients, suddenly we don’t have the nutrients to make any of the hormones, not just the sex hormones but the thyroid, the adrenals. That really is stressful on the body because it works like that orchestra. If one thing goes off suddenly, that’s where these imbalances start to come from.

I think it’s quite easy and common to fall into them, especially if you’re not paying attention to your body and what it’s saying to you. 

Dr. Eric: 

True. Couldn’t agree more about gut health. We’ll talk more about the importance of the gut, how it affects nutrients. If you don’t have a healthy gut, healthy stomach acid, you’re not going to be able to digest.

Now I did my research. I listened to some episodes of your podcast prior to having you on, just like I do with everybody. You spoke about metabolic typing. Can you talk a little bit about what metabolic typing is for those who are unfamiliar with it? 

Bria: 

Absolutely. One of the most common questions I have always gotten being in the wellness space for women is, “What should I eat? How much should I eat? Give me a nutrition plan.” I get that. “Tell me what to do, and I’ll do it.” Most women are pretty great at that.

I always find the answer to that is so individual and personal. Where metabolic typing comes in is it helps understand the rate that you, as an individual, that your cells turn food into fuel. If you have a faster rate, it’s not about the state of your metabolism being fast or slow. It’s really about the rate that those cells turn things in.

I find that this helps us understand why some people can feel amazing and have mental clarity off of a more ketogenic, lower carbohydrate diet, and other people can feel unwell and sick. Why some people can feel all glowy and wonderful on a plant-based, vegan diet, while other people look sick from that vegan diet. 

When we think about metabolic typing, if you are a fast oxidizer, if your cells turn food into fuel really quickly, then we want to look toward eating slower-burning fuel. That’s more red meats, higher in purine proteins, probably a lower carbohydrate diet, higher fats, higher protein. If you are a slow oxidizer, you will feel a lot better from eating what we call faster-burning fuel, probably more complex carbohydrates, lighter proteins. 

It helps work with the body’s system, and it helps us understand the basic fuel mixture we want to work with, so we can feel full and satisfied and give our body what it needs in between our meals. 

Dr. Eric: 

How do you determine someone’s metabolic type? 

Bria: 

There’s a great book called Metabolic Typing, and the test is right in there. You can pay to have the test done. This is something I do with my clients to get a more elaborate picture. There is a really simple self-test that you can actually do at home to have a rough understanding of whether you’re a fast or slow oxidizer. 

That is simply to, in the afternoon, maybe, when you might be able to have a snack. You don’t want it to be your meal. You would either choose to have something like an orange or a piece of meat. Specifically, the orange I find helpful. If we have an orange, this is a fast-burning fuel. It’s a carbohydrate. 

After you have that as a snack, if you pay attention to your body an hour or two later, if you feel really good, you’re likely what we call a slow oxidizer. It needs that faster-burning fuel, so you don’t get sluggish and bogged down trying to get through it. If you feel jittery or hungry already or a low energy crash, that’s a better indicator that you’re what we call a fast oxidizer. Eating straight up simple carbohydrates or too many carbohydrates can really make you drag your body down and throw off your blood sugar levels. 

Dr. Eric: 

Do you find that more people are one or the other, a slow oxidizer or a fast oxidizer? 

Bria: 

I find it’s pretty in the middle. There is something we call a mixed oxidizer as well. When you think about where this stems from and where the research came from, it was looking at where we come from genetically in the world. 

It helps explain why you think about certain parts of the world, where maybe in the way north, there is not a lot of vegetables available. We are talking rich seal meats and rich fats that way. Genetically, that is what people evolved to work with in their body. Versus parts of Asia, when we see people with diets much higher in rice and vegetables, higher carbohydrates. Proteins are more expensive. They have adapted that way. 

I do find it pretty split. This mixed oxidizer comes into play a lot as well. That is what I am. We see that a lot from people coming from western Europe, in England, Ireland, Scotland, where you’re having a good mix. You have some meat and some fish and some potatoes and some vegetables. We have that mixed combo in there. 

I do find it’s pretty split. If you are a fast oxidizer, and you’re not eating a higher protein diet, it’s a real struggle for you to feel well and therefore to lose weight or feel your best or optimize your hormones. Vice versa for slows. 

Dr. Eric: 

I don’t know if you are familiar with hair testing. Some hair testing looks at slow versus fast oxidizers. 

Bria: 

This is different from that. It’s called the same thing. It is a different theology and a different result. 

Dr. Eric: 

Good to know. It sounds like though ideally you would want to be a mixed oxidizer.  

Bria: 

I find in some ways being a mixed oxidizer is easier because then we have a bit more fluidity and option. However, it’s not as direct. When I am working with my clients, and they are mixed, they don’t know what to eat. It can be more confusing. It’s a little bit more cut and dry if you’re fast or slow. You’re going to need a higher this or a lesser that.

Most importantly, I find it really helpful to give us a starting point for the macronutrient fuel mixture. If you’re a fast oxidizer, we likely want to be having a minimum of 30g of protein in our meals. If you’re a slow oxidizer, we can probably get away with 20g of protein and making it up with more carbohydrates and some fat. If you’re mixed, we can sit in the middle there. You might feel just as well on either side of those. 

That’s where it becomes very bioindividual. We have to pay attention, which I think at the end of the day is the name of the game. Listen to your own body. That’s where your answers are. 

Dr. Eric: 

True. Couldn’t agree more. 

Let’s talk about stress. Stress also is important. We spoke about sleep also. When it comes to stress, how does stress impact the hormones? How important is it to do things to manage stress or at least manage the perception of stress in order to have healthy hormones? 

Bria: 

It’s critically important to try to manage that quickly. Stress is the biggest energy sucker of our body. When we’re coming back to that example of health debt, if we want to reduce the demand on the body, we want to reduce stress to the body for sure. 

At the same time, we want to have capacity for stress. If we have capacity and bandwidth and reserves for cortisol or stress in the body, that’s going to allow us to handle the aging process, the shifting of these hormones that we know are happening in perimenopause and menopause. Lots of things there.

When our cortisol is elevated, that is the body’s alarm system of saying, “Okay, we need to manage this life-altering, life-threatening situation.” As a result, it suppresses the sex hormone production at that time. Our bodies are designed to handle stress not chronically but acutely, like in a short term, so we can survive. 

What we see more and more for women, and this also goes to that question of why so many hormone imbalances, is people under much more chronic stress these days. That significantly depresses the production of our sex hormones, which is also why we’re seeing symptoms of perimenopause earlier and earlier in women than before. We’re seeing the impact of that. 

As you know, the adrenals and thyroid work quite closely together. We’re seeing some major impacts on those. Of course, the sex hormones are really impacted by the thyroid hormones. It massively matters how we manage stress in our lives and also how we reduce it. 

It’s not just our emotional stress; it may be stress from us staring at screens all the time and stress from the fact that social media can tell us all the scary things going on in the world at any given second. It’s also the stress happening in our body from the food we’re eating, from whatever dysbiosis may be in the gut, from the environmental toxins we’re exposed to that may be impacting the liver and all of these pieces.

Long-winded answer. It significantly makes all the difference. My whole process with my clients is how do we reduce the call to cortisol in your body? How do we reduce stress and your brain’s experience of stress? 

Dr. Eric: 

There is that adrenal-thyroid relationship, where there are a number of factors that can affect the conversion of T4 to T3. One of those is having high cortisol. Gut and liver play a big role in that conversion as well. Like you said, it’s not just emotional stressors. That is a big factor, but all these other things are stressors as well. 

Sometimes, I’ll share my story when I was dealing with Graves’. Prior to my diagnosis, I was overtraining. That was also putting a big stressor on my body. I think you do adrenal testing, saliva or DUTCH. Back then, in 2008, it was the adrenal saliva test. My cortisol was in the tank. My DHEA was in the tank. It’s hard to know if it was more due to overtraining or emotional stressors. I’m sure it was a combination. I was working out too hard, and I wasn’t listening to my body.

I agree with everything you said. You mentioned earlier how you weren’t sleeping, and I’m sure that wasn’t helping in your pursuit of having happy hormones at the time. Like you said, things are a lot better. You’re sleeping better, and it’s probably no coincidence that you feel better now in your 40s than you did in your 20s. 

Bria: 

Yeah, I sleep more appropriately now. I can relate to that. That was part of my issue. My cortisol was in the toilet. It felt like, is this perimenopause? Ultimately, I think perimenopause gets a bad rap. Our sex hormones get blamed, but they are just the messenger. Don’t shoot the messenger. Who is throwing off the messenger?

For most women, especially under 48, the sex hormones might be off, but it’s probably not because you can’t produce the amount of sex hormones that you need. It’s likely because something else is causing a problem. Of course, the shifting of hormones into retirement is a stress on the body. I can’t even handle this stress, and you’re throwing another thing at me. It gets challenging. 

Dr. Eric: 

It does. I want to get your opinion on fasting. Going back to diet a little bit. There are so many perspectives on fasting. Obviously, there are some advocates of fasting, and there are some who are against fasting. 

I am bringing this up because we are talking about stressors. Some are concerned that extreme fasting especially might be a stressor on the body. I want to get your perspective. What do you think about fasting? Do you fast? Do you recommend for your clients to fast? 

Bria: 

What I use for myself and what I recommend for my clients is a typical nighttime fast and fasting in between meals. When we are talking about our sex hormones, in a time when we know the body is under more stress than usual, our first line of defense against calling on more cortisol is regulated blood sugar. 

If you wake up in the morning as a woman, when our cortisol should be getting its highest spike, and we don’t eat, that means we don’t have glucose coming in, so the body is calling on more cortisol. Now we have more cortisol. Then you have a coffee, and there is more cortisol. Then you work out, so there is more cortisol. Then you’re not eating again until lunch. You are massively impacting your sex and adrenal hormones in a very negative way. 

In my practice, with myself and my clients, I feel very strongly that we eat within two hours of waking, that we eat enough in that meal to last us 4-5 hours until lunch, and then 4-5 hours until dinner. For whatever reason, if life gets in the way and we need a snack, we have a snack.

Let’s say you wake up at 6am. You have breakfast at 8am. You have dinner at 6pm. That’s a 14-hour fast plus a 4-5-hour fast between those meals. That seems to support the body in a much better way. Sometimes, in order to regulate that blood sugar, depending on what’s going on with the gut and the body, we need a snack at night in order to be able to sleep through the night, which is priority #1.

To answer your question, I see the value of fasting when it’s done appropriately for women, but not during the time of day when we need the most energy. We need to give the body what she needs in order to do this big job that she’s doing in general. 

Dr. Eric: 

Everybody is different. There are some people who might seem to be doing fine with 16-8 fasts or occasional 24-hour fasts. I think a big concern is having such a small eating window. Like you said, during the day, that’s when you want to make sure you get the nutrients and protein. 

Over the years, I’ve had some people I work with who are doing 20-hour fasts on a regular basis. Even an 18-hour fast regularly, that is only a six-hour eating window. It’s difficult to get the nutrients and protein you need. Also, I think it could be a stressor on the body as well. 

Bria: 

Like you said, it’s very individual. If you’re in a place in your body where your health is solid, the foundations are solid, you feel really good, and you want to play with tools and hacks to test it out, it could be something that might be beneficial for you. Only you will know if you try it.

If you’re trying to use it when you’re in a health debt situation, when you are having these symptoms, your PMS is off, you can’t lose weight naturally, and you are feeling exhausted, that is a time to use that more extreme fasting for another time in your life when you’re solid. 

Dr. Eric: 

Makes sense. Let’s talk about building muscle. How can women build muscle mass? 

Bria: 

Obviously as a trainer, I think putting on lean muscle is the gold standard for protecting our hormones, our bodies. It’s like wrapping our body in armor.

We have to make sure we have the energy to handle that stressor. You and I both have already shared how overexercising is actually doing the opposite for us. 

I always like to make sure our basics are in place for women. Do we have enough sleep happening? We need at least seven hours of sleep to be able to repair and create muscle synthesis. Let’s make sure that’s in place. Let’s make sure our nutrition is on. 

Let’s make sure we get functional movement in a day. I’m not sure about you, but for me, I spend a lot of time sitting in front of a computer working with clients, so I need to make sure I am getting up for lymphatic drainage, for my mindset, for walking and moving the body. No matter what, these are things that have to be there first. And stress management and joy. 

Once those pieces are locked in, then I think putting on lean muscle at any age, but definitely in perimenopause and menopause, really comes down to, now, I have this additional energy because my foundations are in place. I’m not in debt. Where do I want to invest this energy? 

What we see is that the best use of your energy is going to be in resistance training. Weightlifting or body weight resistance training. To be specific about it, I find three, four days a week of resistance training complemented by good flexibility and mobility training is enough to make a difference and put on that lean muscle. 

During that process, you can notice, “Am I hungrier now? Maybe I need to support with more protein,” which our body needs to create muscle. It can be staged and simple for women, but it is so critical. 

Once our ovaries retire, our adrenals are going to be producing some of those hormones, and the rest is coming from our tissues. We want to put on that lean muscle as long as we have the energy and capacity to do so. 

Dr. Eric: 

How long personally do you train? When you do resistance exercise, is it 30 minutes? An hour? 

Bria: 

I typically do a 45-minute workout. 15 minutes of that is mobility and stretching, whether it’s on the front end or back end. About a 30-minute lift is what I do. That is enough for most women, unless you are trying to win a competition. Then you will need more. 

Dr. Eric: 

I need more on the flexibility/mobility side. My wife does a pretty good job in that area. She probably didn’t need to do more of that resistance. I won’t say I need less resistance, but incorporate some more flexibility/mobility training. 

Bria: 

It’s an important piece that a lot of us overlook. The strength of our muscle is always going to be limited by the elongation and flexibility and elasticity of it. If you are doing one without the other, you’re going to hit a plateau. 

For me, I like two days of resistance training to one day of solely flexibility and mobility. I find that really helps make all the difference and keeps our body happy and our nervous system calm. 

Dr. Eric: 

For anyone listening, including me, where would you start? Personal trainer? YouTube videos? Probably not on your own. What is some advice? 

Bria: 

It’s hard to know what to do. It’s always good to ask yourself how you feel about this stuff. A lot of people, athletes especially, when I say, “Go do yoga,” they roll their eyes and groan. There is so much beauty and value in doing yoga. For athletes, that quietness doesn’t feel very productive. 

There is a lot of noise that comes up in your head when you are not used to more stillness. If that’s how you’re feeling, looking for workout programs or going to a mobility stability class that is around myofascial release with a roller, or more athletic stretching and mobility can be easier to get into. Or if you haven’t tried yoga, I would recommend doing that.

I have been a long-time user of online workouts. I just work out at home because I find that’s the most efficient thing for me. Some people really love the environment of being somewhere else. 

My suggestions are know thyself a little bit in what you want. If you are not someone who will be motivated on your own, look at the local gyms or community center or classes and find a mobility/stability and stretch class to go to regularly. Or a yoga class. There are hundreds of yoga classes around. I would go to the class because then you would have an instructor to help guide you in the process. 

Dr. Eric: 

Good advice. There are stretch labs everywhere. Yoga. I like working out at home. I don’t do the same workout at home as I do when I go to the gym. That’s why I go to the gym. I do have a personal trainer. If I asked him to focus more on flexibility and mobility training, but I haven’t. 

They have classes at the gym that we go to, too. A few weeks ago, my wife on a Sunday morning asked me to go to yoga with her. “No, I’m good.” Maybe next time, I’ll say yes to the yoga class. 

Bria: 

Two times a week, Dr. Eric. 

Dr. Eric: 

When it comes to losing weight, building muscle mass is also important for weight loss. The metabolic typing you mentioned. Is there anything else you want to add when it comes to women looking to lose weight? 

Bria: 

I think one of the first things that we always want to do when we’re wanting to lose weight is let’s make sure our kindergarten foundations of health are in place. We often skip over these in the pursuit of seeing the changes in the body. In order to create stability in a body that for women in midlife is almost like it’s on a floating bridge. There is no stability here because these hormones are shifting. We want to create a lot of stability.

Before we start getting into workouts, before we start changing into a calorie deficit for example for fat burning, we first need to solidify the foundations of our health. I look at that like a dining table that we eat on that has four legs. We have sleep, nutrition, movement, and joy, which goes hand in hand with stress management. 

We need to hold space for at least 7-8 hours, if not nine, of sleep in a day. If we’re not there, the body is not going to be able to lose weight. We need to be able to sleep. That is when our fat burning happens. That is when our hormones get produced. We want to look at that basic functional movement. Before we start stressing out the body with resistance training, we need to get our basics in, in walking and stretching. 

Look at nutrition. We have to make sure we’re not cutting out the things that are costing the body more energy than they’re providing, so we have the energy to repair and burn stored fat. We’re eating consistently. We talked about those things. 

Then stress and pleasure. Pleasure is a really massive opportunity to bring energy into the body. If you’re stressed, we can’t add pleasure. We need to find ways to manage that. 

If we think about those four pillars of a table, if one of those legs is rickety, it’s not a very good dining experience. If two are rickety, you’re not coming back to that restaurant. If three are rickety, your meal is on the floor. Really starting with those foundations first and foremost, making sure these are as easy for you as brushing your teeth is priority #1 for weight loss. 

Priority #2, especially in this age box, is noticing where the loss of function started to happen in your body. Are you pooping every day? Is that digestion good? is there bloating or gas that we don’t know or understand where it came from? Are we waking up multiple times at night? Then we are looking more at adrenals and liver. Are you waking up in a sweat? Are we having a lot of funky PMS? That will speak more to those sex hormones. 

Pay attention to where those weak spots are. Focus on strategies that work on improving that area first. If function is off in the body, if the thyroid is off, and we start stressing out more but cutting calories and doing more fitness, it will do the opposite. It will start to hold onto more fat and break down the muscles, which can be very confusing for people. 

Dr. Eric:

Let’s talk a little bit more about gut health. You just mentioned the importance of healthy bowel movements. We chatted earlier about gut health. What do you do to help your clients improve the health of their gut, including any functional lab testing? Do you do it on everybody with regard to the gut, or is it more selective? 

Bria: 

I always do a GI Map, which is a functional stool test. You know what it is. For those listening, it’s a wonderful thing. It certainly rules out things like pathogens and parasites and yeast and fungus, which is helpful. I think the greater value in it is looking at the good bacteria and bad bacteria, the commensal and opportunistic, to really understand the state and capabilities and where the weak spots are in the gut, as well as some good intestinal health markers. 

It’s a really great lab. I run it on all of my clients, even if they don’t have digestive issues. I have found over time that for many women, they might not have any digestive issues, but they are not breaking down and absorbing any nutrients. Their gut is almost like a dry garden. It doesn’t have what it needs.

People have genetic weak spots naturally in their body. Some people might have massive GI distress, and that makes it very easy to say, “Okay, let’s start in the gut.” For a lot of women, when we aren’t getting those nutrients or detoxifying those hormones, we’re seeing the downstream effects in the thyroid, in the adrenals, in the sex hormones. They’re experiencing those symptoms but not the GI issues.

I really like to run that as a good understanding of what is going on and what is our customized strategy to make sure we have a really nourished gut. 

Dr. Eric: 

I think it’s important what you mentioned. Just because you don’t have digestive symptoms doesn’t mean you have a healthy gut. 

Bria: 

What I see most in my clients who don’t have digestive issues but are really struggling with sleep, a lot of more common thyroid symptoms. Maybe they have temperature issues in their body; they’re cold all the time. They’re losing hair. We are seeing a very depleted gut at that point in time. We need to renourish that, so we have those minerals and vitamins.

I know you probably speak to this all the time. In those clients, I often see low T3 and an elevated reverse T3, which makes it so challenging to feel good in your body. 

Dr. Eric: 

Yeah, definitely agree. It sounds like you test for reverse T3 in your patients. Do you test thyroid in everybody? 

Bria: 

I do. When I work one on one with a client, I really will always start with the GI Map; a DUTCH, which we have talked about to test adrenals, sex hormones, balance, and detoxification. I like to do a good blood chemistry that has a full thyroid panel, iron, verifies some of the sex hormones and minerals. I like to see Vitamin D, magnesium, zinc, B12, things like that, just to get a better picture of what’s depleted and try to get an understanding of root cause a bit more, so we can focus our efforts. 

Dr. Eric: 

With the DUTCH, when it comes to women in perimenopause, do you recommend a DUTCH Complete? They also have the cycle mapping. In perimenopause, might be challenging. Is it just the DUTCH Complete you typically recommend? 

Bria: 

Most of the time, I do a DUTCH Complete. If I have someone who works a lot of shift work, and we know their cortisol is all over, we can do the Plus, where they also do the saliva. I find the DUTCH Complete is very thorough for women in this age box. To understand what is off and why might it be off, and fingerpoint at some issues. Help us create a strategy that works for them in their life to reestablish calm and balance in the body. 

Dr. Eric: 

HRT. What are your thoughts on specifically bioidentical hormone replacement therapy? Yes, no, depends on the person? 

Bria: 

Yes, and depends on the person, for sure. I think it can be very beneficial for people. I feel very strongly that we need to make sure those detoxification pathways are clear before we start introducing things like that. It’s really a matter of where we are at, why are we there, and would this be a benefit? It is dependent. 

Sometimes, if our progesterone is okay, but our estrogen is way high, because of a detoxification issue, then when we correct that issue, often it just comes back into balance, and we don’t need to add bioidentical hormones. It is very person to person. 

I think we can see that it’s, more often than not, not just the sex hormones. If it was, we could all just take hormones and feel fine. That’s not the case. 

Dr. Eric: 

I’m with you. There is a time and place for HRT, but if someone does a DUTCH test, and if they have high 4 hydroxy and 16 hydroxy metabolites, and you want to focus on improving the estrogen metabolism. If someone has compromised adrenals, that could also affect the sex hormones, so you want to try to optimize the adrenals. Definitely agree with what you said here. 

This has been a great conversation. I did warn you I was going to ask this question, so you’ve had time to prepare as far as some hormone balancing hacks. 

Bria: 

For sure. I do have a few. There are some that I think a lot of us here, we have talked about a few of the basic ones. Holding that space for sleep. The consistency of eating enough that you feel full and satisfied. Functional movement. 

Some of my favorite tools that are very helpful as hacks. I really am a big believer of waking up and having an adrenal cocktail right away: a big flush of water, some lemon, some good sea salt in there. You can google adrenal cocktail recipes. Supporting those adrenals first thing in the morning can be a really powerful thing. 

What I love these days is a good green juice. We are having a nice flush of water. We are fueling that gut, which will help support the adrenals, too. I find this makes a massive difference for most women. Wake up, flush the body with water and some good nutrients. 

Another one that I find super helpful is I run into a lot of women who are drinking all their water, but they are peeing every hour. When the body is going through this added workload of perimenopause, we demand more minerals. Remineralizing with good electrolytes once, even two times a day. If you’re working out, definitely with your workout, and maybe a good one in the afternoon. I find that can make a big difference in mental clarity, the calming of the body, detoxification. 

If you are struggling with sleep, if you are waking up every night between 2-4am, try a snack half an hour before you go to bed. Test out a little snack. Some of my favorites are a spoonful of nut butter. Sometimes, that alone can make a huge difference. 

If our blood sugar is off, whether it’s because of how we’re eating, or because of our gut, it’s hard to say until we test. It’s going to wake you up. Then it becomes very hard to do anything else if we’re not sleeping well. 

Those are three of some of my favorite things to do that are quick, easy, and affordable that really move the needle for women. 

Dr. Eric: 

With the adrenal tonic, is that something someone could do every single day? 

Bria: 

Yeah, that can be done every day first thing in the morning. Without whatever life is going to throw at you, first thing in the morning is when we are having that highest cortisol spike. We just want to give the adrenals some extra love during the time they are working extra hard. 

Dr. Eric: 

Makes sense. Just water, lemon, and sea salt. No harm in taking that on a daily basis first thing in the morning. 

Bria, this was amazing. You shared a lot of information. I loved this conversation. Anything else before we wrap up that I should have asked you, or any last words you want to say before I ask where people can find out more about you? 

Bria: 

The big message I always want to get across to women listening is that perimenopause happens for us, and not to us. It’s like the gift you didn’t want, but you needed. This added workload to your body is going to shake down and point out where the problems are. 

Although it’s frustrating, and you might not feel like you have the capacity right now to handle the symptoms that are coming up, I think this is your opportunity to do the deeper underlying work with Dr. Eric or a practitioner that might specialize in your area to lock in your health, so you have the next 4-5 decades to feel great. Really try to think of this shift as a gift, this opportunity to do the real work, so you can feel your best going forward. 

Dr. Eric: 

Wonderful. AS far as where people can find you, your website is BriaThePeriodWhisperer.com. You have a big following on Instagram. I’ll let you share the details. 

Bria: 

My website is great. @Bria_Period_Whisperer on Instagram. Check out The Period Whisperer podcast, where this is all we talk about. If you’re in it and need some more support, it’s there for you. 

Dr. Eric: 

Thank you again. This was a really good conversation. Just really enjoyed it. I’m sure my listeners did as well. 

Bria: 

Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Eric.